by Loral on January 24, 2005
We remember the battles of Bloody Kithicor. The older adventurers speak to the newer ones of the days when it was safe to cross the forest at night, the days before the wars came and tore the dead from the ground. Now only the boldest adventurers dare to cross the unholy grounds of Kithicor at night.
We remember the fall of Grobb. The ancient Guktans, children of Marr, crawled from the depths of Guk and marched upon Grobb. The trolls were sent north to Neriak with an eternal fire in their eye for their homeland.
We remember the god-battles of Lesser Faydark. The avatar of Tunare and the avatar of Cazic Thule battled upon the cursed lands of Lesser Faydark calling heroes of both light and darkness to their sides. The outcome of this battle, different in each of our splinter worlds, changed the face of the Faydark for some time.
Dynamic events set Everquest apart from other traditional games. We never watch the landscape of Final Fantasy or Baldur's Gate shift, grow, or collapse unless it is part of the linear story. Everquest isn't a story, however. Everquest is a world, and events like these prove it.
Two weeks ago, a knight of Tunare stood on the bridge of Felwithe and asked for aid in locating Firiona Vie. Pieces of her cloak and evidence of her travel lay about the old lands. Further investigation revealed a dark plot surrounding the Tower of Frozen Shadows in the Iceclad ocean. Powerful beasts roamed the icy lands and a guardian barred all entrance into the dark tower. Even the sky spoke of great evil.
Now dark elves spy over the Dreadlands. Who knows where this will lead, but one thing is for sure; like Bloody Kithicor, the Fall of Grobb, and the god wars of Lesser Faydark; the world of Norrath will not remain the same when these times are over.
So now the future lies in our hands. Will we at least witness these changes? Of the three events mentioned above, I witnessed none of them personally. I did hunt down and return pieces of evidence of Firiona's travel. I helped the parties seeking to rescue Firiona from the tower by turning in pieces of evidence among the ruins of the Tower's beasts. I have seen the scouts of Dreadlands. Yet few others seem to see this.
So now we uncover another strange behavior I have witnessed for a long time. A lot of players tend not to try anything new, instead preferring to hunt in commonly known and safe lands. We lose sight of the forest through the trees. Our chance for the safe acquisition of levels, AAs, and gear takes us away from some very entertaining one-time events. Many will miss these events because they either do not hear of them, or do not care to witness them and leave their safe Wall of Slaughter group.
I noticed this same behavior at the beginning of each expansion. People didn't seek out MPG and Riftseekers when Omens came out, they went to Fire and earned their levels and AAs there. People continued working on LDONs and everyone wanted to finish their epic 1.5 as fast as possible rather than see some of the deeper lands of Kuua. Perhaps my narrow view only sees these types of players, but sometimes it feels like we forget what we really seek. We hunt down new higher numbers instead of seeking new adventures.
Over the next three weeks, we will see a great shift in Norrath. If you seek it out, you can witness this change and fight alongside your allies in the battles ahead. When these events are complete, you will never have the chance to see them again.
Speak to your friends, to your guild, and to your groups, and let them know of these changes. Put together a small team of explorers and seek out these strange signs. Take your raiding force that threatens the same beast you destroyed a dozen times before and attack the creatures you will never have a chance to see again.
Remember that this game isn't only about levels or AAs or gear. It's about fun. In this case, the fun has a lifespan and it will never come back again. Don't miss it.
24 January 2005
Comment Posted by: Memorie Loss on January 24, 2005 04:05 PM
It's true, there is much entertainment to be had at GM events. but the problem is not everyone gets to be at the center of it.
I was there at bloody Kithicor. I stood by and was ready to fight for good. At the end of it all I had the great fortune to loot the leader of the good for he had fallen. Low and behold there was a Golden Diamond Mask, Bladstopper and some type of (then) uber druid sword. At level 30 and at that time these were awsome items. In fact Bladestopper had never dropped on our server to that point, so I was the first to have it and golden diamond mask was a rare thing.
Although these items were great. Only 1 of 45 or so that were there even knew that they dropped and he had no instruction to share it with the rest. And the event went very very wrong, in my opinion. We could not even assist those we were there to assist, our adversaries were immune to attack.
I had wanted to attend other GM events after that, but was always too late to arrive. Now I am of the EQII crowd, and hopefully there will be well thought out and even scheduled events that will be of the type EQI has.
Comment Posted by: menleniel on January 24, 2005 06:32 PM
These are events not to be missed. Unfortunately I arrived too late for the raid which freed firiona vie. Its too bad gm's can't be nearby to help out though. I don't know what went wrong but only a couple on the raid that freed fv got their titles. Considering how long this raid lasted you'd think someone could have been there watching over it to make sure it went smoothly. I'll sure try and be at whatever takes place next. I can always xp later :)
Comment Posted by: on January 24, 2005 07:10 PM
Are you talking about this?
Comment Posted by: Wombat on January 24, 2005 08:14 PM
Hmm I play off peak (from Oz) so I rarely get to see anything thats not run over 24 hours.
The first Halloween was great as I could actually get upgrades and it was on when I was playing. Halloween wasnt changed or upgraded in level range so it became passe' after the first time.
Most GM events are prime time so I never see them and are unplayable because of lag due to massive crowding or because uber guild X gets there in large numbers and dominates it.
In the case of the latest events they started in zones that are now empty (home cities have been made redundant thanks to Luclin and PoP) so I didnt hear about them until they were mostly over.
In the case of ToFS. Getting a group has become a problem with my server poulation the way it is, so getting down there and doing anything useful when nothing was known about the quests or what to do for them and having enough people to do it with (balanced groups? no healer or slower so back to kiting NC.
Its great that they had these quests but doing it like EQ2 with proper information and better advertisement in places where people actually are would have helped. I am used to EQ1 having very vague quests that take months (and sometimes never) to sort out. Since the NPC's apparently dont want you to succeed by giving you information thats in any way accurate you end up in spoiler sites, by which time any short term quest has finished.
Not being in a raiding compulsory Guild I dont have the bleeding edge gear and as a Paladin I cant scout much, so dont expect me to be in MPG before anyone else. In fact at 8.5khp I wouldnt get a group there, although nowadays even level 70's have trouble getting the numbers to group there.
Basically my Guild is still gearing up in NC, RCoD and WoS. It will probably take another 6 months to get a reasonable amount of the quest armour (looong faction aquisition times) and all their OoW runes.
We are severely hampered by the numbers that have left and continue to leave for EQ2 and WoW and this makes us even slower, uber Guilds are pinching all our healers except for the very casual players who arent on much anyway. We are down to me and a casual warrior for tankage.
Its a bit hard to be enthusiatic about new transient quests when only those guilds with the numbers and gear have a chance of finishing them.
Comment Posted by: FurryCrew on January 24, 2005 08:16 PM
Yes that would be it
Comment Posted by: Wombat on January 24, 2005 08:25 PM
Ahh ok I just saw the Cold Fury link. CF and Dedication (CF friends and alts Guild) are a high level off peak Oz raiding Guild on my server. Its great that they were able to do this before the peak time Guilds got to it! :D
As far as a server wide event is concerned it still required 30 top level/equipped players to do it. My family raiding Guild (WoS equipped), wasn’t in the race.
Comment Posted by: Lothorn on January 24, 2005 09:03 PM
The only thing I can really disagree with is, that it is about lvl's and AA's. Because if you don't have the level's or the AA's you can't (1) survive to get to the content or (2) survive to experience the content. Also anything that requires a raid force is not going to be a thrown together group but some sort of guild. To be in this guild you have to have the level they want and the aa they want. So in the end it does all come down to lvl and aa's.
Comment Posted by: Wombat on January 24, 2005 09:04 PM
What DoN will mean to us is that half the Guild will want to do new stuff and half is still tring to finish faction and quests in OoW so we wont have the numbers to do either if we are split between expansions. Half the Guild wont buy it because of fears of bugs and only the insane are preordering it.
One of the reason people used to stick with LDoN's was that you had to keep pushing for points to get the gear. If you heard of something happenning somewhere else and you were in a LDoN you were stuck for another 2 hours before you could do anything about it or hard just spent an hour (or more) getting the group together. With 100 points to go to your NRo BP what are you going to do? Check out a probably bugged quest with vague guidelines and incredible lag from the rush of people and uber players get the reward first anyway, or stick with a more certain reward for your time?
If Lorals post is expressing disssapointment at small numbers turning up for this latest event perhaps its actual proof of low server numbers also?
I used to rush to EQ events (I only participated in one GM event that I got to in time and was witness to another that I couldnt take part in, over 4 years, all the others (3) I was too late), I couldnt port and was often in out of the way places, so I learnt not to drop everything unless I was, by accident, very close to it.
Its so hard to get a good group (or any group) in a good location nowadays you dont leave at the drop of a hat.
Btw I think if I had happened to be at ToFS when CF saved FV they would have let me into it (our Guilds know each other well) but for others its less likely since they arent into zerg pick up raids. So its far from a server wide effort like killing the Sleeper was with multiple Guilds.
Comment Posted by: Wombat on January 24, 2005 10:20 PM
"Many will miss these events because they either do not hear of them, or do not care to witness them and leave their safe Wall of Slaughter group." - Loral
Most likely do not hear of them, no one in my guild had heard about any of this until I saw it talked about on EQ forums.
Do not care to witness them? Well A DE standing in DL isnt much to see and knowing when the big event is to happen would help otherwise you are just hanging about waiting 24/7 for days or weeks. In the Case of TOFS a whole 30 people got to see FV being rescued by CF. 30 people would have filled the top room so not much chance of anyone else seeing it. Perhaps they could have been ported into IC and a huge avatar which could be seen for distance could have done the dialogue?
Not leaving a safe group? See my comments above, casual players need not apply to 90% of these things.
Comments from people who have been to GM events that I didnt get to "the zone crashed", "too laggy to participate", "it was bugged, handin didnt work etc", "uber Guild X ported in and killed zone and left" etc, etc.
Events like the first Halloween worked because they spread across zones and level ranges so all had a shot at it. It was doable by single groups also. Players in all timezones could access them, population was spread out to reduce lag and they went long enough for people to hear about them.
Comment Posted by: Teremar on January 24, 2005 11:25 PM
A data point:
A friend of mine and her guild went to this event--she was one of their highest level players at 66. The result was a quick wipe and a long and frustrating CR. It was the straw that broke the camel's back for her. She cancelled her account.
So yes, I'd say designing the event such that it isn't just for the top three guilds on the server might be wise. Or if it is, make sure everyone knows that.
Comment Posted by: Aailelin on January 24, 2005 11:25 PM
I was lucky enough to happen upon a GM event at the time the Warrens was opening up. There was a GM standing at the bring between south and north karana requesting assistance from a brell worshiping cleric and some others to help the cleric complete their mission. It was far from a raid experience and 99.99% of the server probably never even knew it was happening. But, thats what made it fun. I heard about the Firiona Vie event over the message of the day. Though from my experience with some of the past Holloween events if they shout it over the server then the zone the event is in will have upwards of 200 people in it and not be playable.
Comment Posted by: Menleniel on January 25, 2005 12:46 AM
Well Tribunal managed to turn it into a serverwide event. Quotes from Allakhazam.
Posted @ Tue, Jan 18th 7:15 AM 2005
Score: Decent [3.00]
Completed on Tribunal 1-16 basically by a pick up raid of people from various levels of guilds, was a fun event Sony got creative with the end this time.
Darn, lost the other thread but at least six guild s and some stragglers participated.
Check out the going s on in Dreadlands right now. Can be done singly if you are high enough or a group if you aren't.
Comment Posted by: Ubu on January 25, 2005 09:17 AM
On Luclin, it was initially a multi-guild zerg event, but after four hours of turning in drops, everyone got sick of it and started wandering off to go get xp. I have no idea who finally completed it or when; as of the next night it still wasn't done.
I was at the Battle of the Avatars in LFay (spent most of it dead and the rest video lagged), and the Cleansing of the Karanas. (Still got the bracelet I got at the latter...I just can't bring myself to delete it.) Both of those had a certain feel which no script can capture. The Cleansing event was especially cool (to me) because I'd done two of the quests and was able to introduce myself to the NPC/GM as an Inspector of Qeynos.
Of the scripted events, my favorite still remains the halloween zone revamps from several years ago. I have a friend who enjoyed it so much he took off from work the next year to spend all halloween day playing.... and they did nothing.
More of these events are needed that lower levels/casuals can do without being overwhelmed by the ubers. Like have one of those "mob spawns and someone's got to come kill it" type things, but aimed at the 30's & 40's. Anyone stronger that tries to attack the mob either gets ported out (ala' Nagafen) or eats a DT. That will put a stop to people trying to spoil the event (a problem in NRo during the Halloween event).
Comment Posted by: Wombat on January 25, 2005 10:37 AM
What level is the DL event atm? If its just groups whats the story?
Comment Posted by: Pomaikai Po'okela on January 25, 2005 11:07 AM
On Zebuxoruk members of my guild, Infinite Alliance, actually found the quest by accident while going to change out augments. There was nothing mentioned about this in PoK or PoT. Only starting n00bs, and there are precious few of those, and people heading to LDoN's actually go near the zones where this quest started. Four of us got to the point of the Pally walk to Ice Clad, but with only 4 people, no CC and no slower it was doomed to failure. This was at 4am, so there was almost no one in the guild online at the time and we had to all go to bed after the failure.
By the next day, Dark Horizon, our server's top guild had completed the event alone. As far as Dreadlands? Who goes there nowadays? There was a message on the patcher about scout's or something there, but I don't think a soul has checked it out on our server. Why? Our server population has plumeted. Luckily I'm in one of the few guilds that are actually growing and not shrinking to inactivity. As of yet we have not had to advertise for member at all. Many others have not been so lucky. Our guild went from number 9 on our server to number 5 in less than two months. Number 2 and number 4 disbanded and 2 others we were battling neck and neck lost so many members to attrition that they have been reduced to a joint raid alliance.
We are all hoping that DoN will pull people back from the new games that have their attention, but the server population numbers are certainly sobering. Where once we had 90+ people battling it out for a camp in WoS, now you can find usually 1-2 groups there. Our server is pretty much resigned to a server merge. Unless DoN is some sort of Holy Grail, and not some beacon which is vaguely grail shaped, then the question is not if, but when will we have a server merge, and with whom?
If SoE want more people doing these new quests then they need to be announcing them in all of the zones, and not just a few which have turned into virtual ghost towns due to Hot Zones and EXP modifier's. We know they can. We've all had the shit bugged out of us when they want us to buy a new expansion...
As for pre-orders? We've all been burned by the hell that was LoY. I lost too much time screwing around waiting for my character to be restored after that fiasco. Not only that, I lost out on the in game item. Why should I take the chance of my character getting bugged and miss out on an in game item just to save SoE a TON of money by pre-ordering the download? I have ZERO incentive to help them out, and all the incentive in the world to just buy it locally on day one of release...
Comment Posted by: Mezzwit on January 25, 2005 11:12 AM
Loral, while I do agree that there is more fun in exploring and finding new things, I hardly think my view of fun should reflect what everyone's view of fun is. Some people find it fun to grind XP and AA's. Dinging 70 in 3 days is fun to some people. Your last sentence has the insinuation that if you're not exploring and finding new things then you're not having fun or missing out on the fun. I think that's what makes EQ such a great game; there are so many different facets of the game that "powergamers" and "casuals" can all find a spot in the world of Norrath to call fun.
While the world ~has~ changed, and to people like us, it means new explorations and a chance to see new zones and creatures. To others it just means their favorite XP spots will be less crowded for a few weeks. To each his own.
Comment Posted by: Loral on January 25, 2005 01:00 PM
That is certainly a fair statement. More important than anything, people should have fun doing what they want to do. If that's grinding, grind away.
I do know some that grind or raid but don't really enjoy it and then blame the game for not having any fun content. Its those people I choose to address this to.
Comment Posted by: Solistic on January 25, 2005 01:25 PM
I was sad that these events came out. I so wish to be able to help and participate. The rescue, I actually ran Solistic over to Ice Clad. She is level 65, but when I got there, there was a group from the largest guild on our server there, all 68+ in level, they had wiped twice already and were waiting reinforcements. Joining them to help in this adventure was out of the question, since I was not in their guild, I was "inferior". And I knew our family guild would never be able to complete the quest. We are not a time equiped level 70 guild. My point here, is the event was set up for about 5% of the people on our server. I do not understand why.
I know there is something going on in Dreadlands, everytime I zone in with my level 45 beastlord, I get the zone emotes, but I am afraid to look for the NPC's because again they may be designed for level 70 players and I would die a horrible death.
We have talked about it in our guild many times, and the general feeling is that they are not intersted because our guild and guild friends would not be able to complete the quests, so why try.
Again I ask, what is the logic of setting up events that will change the world, and making those events for a tiny portion of the server population.
Comment Posted by: on January 25, 2005 02:11 PM
EQ1 is as dead as cold mutton, no expansion set can bring it back to life
Comment Posted by: crimsonsplat on January 25, 2005 02:11 PM
Just to be clear and fair.. I don't think we should be seeing NO events (intentionally or otherwise) designed for uberguilds... it's just that as long as they happen as infrequently as they do, it's hard to swallow that restriction.
Comment Posted by: on January 25, 2005 02:43 PM
People who don't bother to even ASK to join the existing groups/raids in these new events make me sad.
People who are in these groups/raids who refuse to let others join in on the fun, make me even sadder.
I think its important, especially now in this gray twilight of everquest population, that people stop to respect and have fun with each other, because someday, when your uberguild falls apart to not enuff seasoned raiders, or your family guild is poached clean by the next guild up, the folks who you spited before may be the only one's left to play with.
Comment Posted by: Mezzwit on January 25, 2005 03:07 PM
Aye, I see your point and I see who your target is in the article. But lets be honest. People that complain about the way they spend their time in the game (that they continue to pay for) are the same people that complain that expansions are geared too high for them when they're low levels, to loo when their high levels, there's not enough content and zones are crowded, there is too much content and they can't find a group, their class is underpowered, all other classes are overpowered, takes too long to level, the game is being dumbed down and Gnomes are too tall!
These kind of people just like to complain to hear themselves. They only feel good when they are spinning out of control and hating life. The game is fun, it's these types that make the game un-fun. Calling EQ dead as cold mutton... great... stop your subscription and quit being a hater on EQ related boards. But they can't. And the fact we still have fun in the game is something they just don't understand. Probably never will.
I guess I see your point, I just wonder if the people that need to hear your message are really listening.
Comment Posted by: Horzek on January 25, 2005 03:39 PM
I have been on both ends of the sword when it comes to GM events. There were so many events run where it was very hard to find enough to get the event going. There were so many where the "high levels" simply came in and ruined the event for everyone it was just sad. I am long since retired from that part of my life so I can speak with a little authority I guess.
For the truly epic GM events like the changing of Kithicor which I was lucky enough to have been an actor in it was great. Times have changed since those days though. The truly epic events are very few and far between. On the other hand there are a lot of small gm type events (I use gm even if the event is guide only) run on a regular basis on many servers.
One of the sad things I see as a result of the events is that the only thing people seem to be interested in is "what did he drop?" Can we never find those who are not either greedy or mercenary?
I often hoped to find those who were there just for the fun. Once in a while this did happen and folks had a great time. When that happened we all enjoyed ourselves.
I believe I share many of your concerns when you talk about events where the only ones who have a hope of competing are from the top server guilds with all the time level gear. It has been my experience that there is much lacking in those top end guilds. From my perspective, they bitch the most, they cheat the most and they are the most arrogant and least respective of other players. I wish it could be known how many folks from the top end guilds have been banned for exploitations. Unfortunately I dont have that type of information although I have seen much.
Remember the days of raid jumping and deliberate training over in ToV among other places?
I guess one of the great mysteries to me will always be why the SoE folks seem to cater to the ones who squeak the most. IN a way maybe it was good that the SoE folks got the uber guilds out of our hair by placing them in zones we coudlnt go to where the only ones the guilds could mess with was each other. Even then it remained sad because all the spell drops we depended on were at the mercy of the uber clan greed.
Enough for today except I did notice that on my WoW server there is now a guild named SoE. I cant seem to get away from them.
Comment Posted by: Menleniel on January 25, 2005 07:15 PM
The quest mobs in Dreadlands, even though the conned dubious did not attack and even spoke to me and allowed me to do the quest. They are not attackable.
Not sure if there is any kind of level limit, I don't think so. If you can handle the normal mobs in DL you should be fine. The armor handed for doing the quests has a level limit of 40. Quest is called Honor Lany's T'vyl. Info is already on Allakhazam.
Comment Posted by: Pomaikai Po'okela on January 25, 2005 08:44 PM
GM Events? Guide events? On Zeb, once in a while the Guide's or GM's, or whomever they are, hold some sort of a big PvP duel in the Lake Rathe Arena. Last time it was a Gnome Rumble. Oooh... Ahhh... Talk about some dull and boring folks we have working on our server. I'd love to see some real GM events like we used to have back in the day, and not these pablum crap "events" that we are being spoonfed in EQ's dottage. Imagination and fun are needed for GM events. We need more of it and soon if EQ1 is to be saved...
Comment Posted by: Solistic on January 26, 2005 11:23 AM
Guides are not GM's. They are not employees of Sony, they are volunteers. The "Little" events and quests they perform are purely because they love to see people have fun. Most guides are more interested in roleplaying. I remember the small quest on our server about a woman that wanted to posion her cheating husband, I used my little rogue and ran around making posion and turning it into to her, in a very roleplaying way. Yes I got some rewards but the greatest reward was I had a blast doing it.
On my server and others I know that these events and quests are being performed for all levels. To criticize the people that work hard on the events and quests would be like criticizing a Red Cross Volunteer that is doing their best with what they have.
Comment Posted by: on January 26, 2005 06:22 PM
"The "Little" events and quests they perform are purely because they love to see people have fun"
If they want to see people have fun then why the heck are they volunteering for a Sony product?
Comment Posted by: Wombat on January 26, 2005 07:23 PM
Thanks for the info Mena :D
I will let my Guild know, we dont have any below 50's (none around to invite to the Guild) but some alts may be used on the quests.
Happy Australia Day everyone!
Heres a link to celebrate (written by a culturally sensitve bloke from New Hampshire).
Comment Posted by: Maitreya on January 27, 2005 12:48 AM
"If they want to see people have fun then why the heck are they volunteering for a Sony product?"
Maybe because, *gasp* not everyone's opinions are the same as yours. Some people actually enjoy EQ. Isn't that shocking? I know, it's wild to think that not everyone shares your SoE hate. We must be freaks.
With that said, when I can ignore the whining and complaining of players, I quite like GM and Guide events.
"One of the sad things I see as a result of the events is that the only thing people seem to be interested in is "what did he drop?" Can we never find those who are not either greedy or mercenary?"
Reminds me of one that happened on Solusek Ro a few months ago. A Wood Elf named Captain Oakwind showed up in GFay and started talking about a festival. Before he even explained what was going to happen, people were buffing and grouping up to get ready to kill something. Eventually Oakwind told us that he was going to offer a sacrifice to the forest spirits to ensure a good harvest and a safe year, and he needed adventurers to gather the items. Nuts, berries, roots, that sort of thing mostly. There were 40 items and the person who collected the most in one hour would get a prize. We all ran off, and an hour later he had the winner. The forest spirit appeared and the first question that was asked was "Do we kill the forest spirit?" Anywho, the guy got a gorewood staff and the title Faydark Provider. Immediately there were complaints. One guy was upset because he didn't get a title for an arena event, and this guy gets a title for collecting some plants. Some others were complaining that GMs were giving out titles for simple unheroic tasks and that wasn't cool. I think they were just upset because they lost. I think it's pretty cool that they're doing these events and giving out titles again. I'd heard that they stopped around Luclin because it wasn't fair to those who didn't get titles. Well, I didn't get a special title, probably never will, and I still like it. Too bad some people can't be happy for those who won instead of just complaining that it's not fair.
So, yeah. When I can ignore all the anti-GM complainers, I really like these events.
Ramble mode: Off
Comment Posted by: Talaen on January 27, 2005 01:22 AM
Some of my best memories of Norrath come from GM events in the old days. I had the good luck to manage to attend 5 or 6 "quest troupe" events and be present for several other "plot point" events that lasted over the course of days or weeks. (Plot point events are short-term changes to zones that last for a month or two until the gm event that completes them - quest troupe events were the actual live events where actor GMs were plying firiona, lanys, etc.)
When the events stopped happening, I felt like EverQuest lost something, and I'm glad to hear that the team is trying to bring it back. It's the right thing to do in my opinion.
I'm very sure that there are a lot of legitimate complaints about these events - there are definitely ways that they could have done it better. The biggest problem I see from reading everyone's comments is that the story is set in the old world, but no players play in the old world anymore.
As it stands now, an army of NPCs could walk all the way from Freeport to Qeynos, have a titanic battle along the way in the Karanas, and besiege the city when you got there, and at best you might get a few hundred players involved out of thousands on the server.
Quite simply because half of those players won't care, and most of the ones that would, would never find out the event was going on. Or at best, by the time they found out and could get to the location, it would be long over.
I don't know that there's a good solution for this until SOE can bring people back to the old world zones, somehow. Hopefully DoN will do that to some extent. Until there's life, player life, in the cities and in the lands surrounding those cities, the entire old world of norrath is for all intents and purposes dead, and no one is going to really care what goes on there.
I really wonder if anyone at SOE has realized just how badly POP damaged the integrity of the game world, or how much it changed player perspectives. Even during Luclin's heyday, the old world still mattered, if only because people were using the Spires, or back and forth to Velious all the time.
There are always going to be people who don't want to do anything risky - I run into that in every game I play, and that attitude is alive and well in EQ2, in WoW, in SWG, in CoH, and in any other game you care to name. It's not something specific to EQ. Since you can't change other people, there's not really any way to overcome it completely.
I think SOE is on the right track with this series of events and I hope they follow through and keep the storyline going on some kind of a set schedule - whether that's monthly, or every 7 weeks, or something. The best way to get players looking for new things to be happening is to get them used to it. A lot of players missed this one because there really hasn't been a world-changing event in years. They were complacent. They weren't paying attention. But if these sorts of events keep happening, and often, then they WILL start paying attention.
There used to be guilds in the game whose entire purpose was lore and GM events, in the same way that there are raiding guilds and social guilds today. Those went away when the world became static, and nothing happened other than stories on a web page or in some newspaper that got updated every patch, and when the only events that ever happened were silly races or mindless killing sprees that had no actual greater storyline behind them.
My greatest hope for Norrath (old or new) is that it can be a place where those sorts of guilds can thrive not just now, but for years to come, because they really do get to play in a living, changing, dynamic game world.
Comment Posted by: Loral on January 27, 2005 09:43 AM
These events we're seeing the last couple of weeks aren't GM or Guide events, they're scripted events with a timeline.
One thing I enjoy doing is my own sort of event without needing a guide or GM.
Last night I went into Greater Faydark and Crushbone with three pyrilen whips (dropped three in Riftseekers over a few hours). These 10 21 slashers are nice items for new players but nothing special for vets.
I announced over shout that the church of Felwithe sent me to help arm the young adventurers of the wood in their battles against the orcs of Crushbone. Should these adventurers prove themselves by giving me any five orc items (eyes, belts, shoulderpads, whatever) they would receive one of these whips.
Three people answered my call, two of them were brand new players below level 10. They roleplayed and had a great time and by the end of the night I got to see them cutting through orcs with their new pyrilen whips. It was great fun and required no GMs at all.
So instead of just reading wanton negativity over on the community boards, head in game and go adopt a newbie.
Comment Posted by: Wombat on January 27, 2005 10:50 AM
I went to Crushbone after you wrote this. It was empty. There was one player in EC, a level 5 Monk newbie who wanted to know where everyone was...
I helped him out as best I could.
Good post Talaen :) Things went downhill when the home cities became irelevant.
Comment Posted by: Wombat on January 27, 2005 10:53 AM
I play off peak and therefore miss out on most things, those things I have seen, havent made me very positive...
So if thats negativity I suppose I am guilty, I did say nice things about the first Halloween, remember?
Comment Posted by: Aeolas on January 27, 2005 02:23 PM
SOE has always had a serious problem in letting people know that GM events were planned, when/where, and what happened afterwards. So, the turnout is spotty at best, and often ruined by people who aren't interested in the event, but just how to disrupt it.
I was at Bloody Kithicor, too. It was the best GM event that I've ever been to, and was suitable for all level ranges, since there were battles in multiple zones for different levels.
They got turnout because they spent several hours beforehand traveling through the zones and calling out for volunteers. They would have had more turnout had they announced it beforehand on their web site. People participated because it had something for everyone. Loot was unimportant... the idea of a titanic battle inspired everyone.
And since then? Very little of any interest. GM Events turned into kill-fests, or about subjects that were frankly boring. And they were never announced beforehand... you had to just stumble on them. Once they were done, if you weren't part of it, you rarely ever heard about it.
It could be soooo much better.
Comment Posted by: Horzek on January 27, 2005 02:26 PM
Regarding Loral's post. I stopped into a server a while back and hear an announcement about Qeynos so I dropped in and there at the wall outside the gate was a really neat event going on.
The event was entirely run by a guild and they had prizes, food and drinks and a quest or two they sponsored. I really enjoyed my time there and it seemed like the new bees they were working with all were having a good time as well.
With all the relatively unused zones now days, this sort of thing is nicely available. Essentially we have a blank canvas to do with what ever we wish. There really isnt any reason why the game can only be played for the purpose of getting to the highest tier zone and the best weapon. For those of you who have not forgotten how to have a good time there is a lot that can be done.
I was in the Misty Thicket one evening playing with my halfling Paladin and a fellow halfling came to join me. He was all sure of him self and helped me at killing the orc camps there for a little loot and experience. We chatted some and I ask him how long he had been playing and he told me he had played a "long" time. As we continued our evening I learned that he was actually 9 or 10 years old and was one of those kids that is fairly precocious. He was really anxious to make level 10 so he could leave Misty Thicket and head out to Crushbone. To him that was where it was at.
It brought a smile to me when I learned that his highest character was his level 9 and he was having a great time with me because I had sneaked my druid in behind us to drop a buff or two on us. He never had a clue I was driving the "nice" druid. After a while he dinged up and made level 10 and he was so excited, first because he had outleveled his dad and second because he was ready for Crushbone. As he began his run he did a zone wide shout of good bye to Misty Thicket. He was on his way to see the world.
That was one of the most fun and special days in all my years of playing eq.
Comment Posted by: Armarant on January 27, 2005 07:09 PM
Posted by Wombat at January 27, 2005 10:50 AM
Good post Talaen :) Things went downhill when the home cities became irelevant.
I feel that lavastorm is a good step toward makeing the old world more usefull. but I would also like to see player purchaseable instanced houses.. they would give players some unique abilities like the guild halls will do except they will be for individual players.. and they would be designed based on what city you decide to live in.. so Halflings could get a Hobbit hole.. Humans could get a stone apartment.. Ogres would get a cave.. and so on.. I think it would bring alot of people back to the old cities if they had instanced houseing.
Comment Posted by: katahn on January 28, 2005 08:38 AM
Lots of theories abound as to how to make EQLive a better game. To my way of thinking the first thing that really needs to happen is what the team is supposedly doing now: evaluating classes and the roles they fill group vs. raid. While it would be nice to include solo play there, minimally it needs to be done at the group level because typically complaints are "I can't solo" (even for clerics) its "I can't find a group" or "I can only find groups in dull-as-dishwater zones".
My feeling is that the various grouping roles are going to be bundled up in some fashion, and then used as a benchmark for adding/subtracting abilities from classes so they are capable of meeting that role. I suspect that rather than take the EQII approach of simply having major roles and means of implementing them determined at some EQLive equivilent of an archetype, you'll see them rather broken out so there are primary and secondary roles.
So one takes each of the roles listed by Brenlo in his examples, and then starts assigning primary roles and secondary roles to each class. Ideally as I see it, there should be four classes sharing each primary role, and each one could readily have a differant secondary role. Warriors, Paladins, Shadow Knights, and perhaps Monks could share "Tanking" as a primary role. Warriors could have "Melee DPS" as a secondary, Paladins "Healing/Buffing", Shadow Knights "DPS/Debuffing", and Monks would tank via avoidance instead of mitigation and have a secondary role of "Melee DPS" (making them similar in function but differant in flavor).
Mind you, thats just my guess as to what might happen. As far as content, the real issue is the trivialization of low-level content via twinking and the effect of the Plane of Knowledge on making it just too easy to leave one's newbie yard and go to a "better xp spot". Both of those will need to be addressed in some fashion or else I don't see that issue ever being fixed.
Another fairly insidious problem is that if one is playing an alt, it can be very difficult for friends/guildmates to find you unless said alt is in a guild you share with them. Not being able to have multiple characters on the same account LFG at the same time makes it difficult to be available to play a lower or higher level character and be "found" by characters outside one's level range. The level 65 or 70 cleric who wants to solo some on their level 30 necromancer while LFG basically can't. Being able to list which character(s) one wants to LFG with would make the entire concept of "this is a solo class" and "this is a grouping class" a lot more defensible. One could play the solo class while LFG on the grouping class.
Older expansion spells that are harder to get (such as the level 65 spells from PoP or some of the LDoN spells now that its supposedly losing popularity) need to be worked into the drop tables of newer expansions. Or added as researchable spells.
Adding the ability for all classes to solo ofr 1-2 hours a day for some meaningful experience gain would also be a huge start. Just like the EQII team has admitted, soloing in today's MMO market is an important and desired feature for today's customers. Often its not a matter of being "anti-social" (although be honest now, we all have our moments) but rather sporadic AFKs for things like kids, pets, or other real world concerns. Soloing shouldn't be as good as grouping, given the the additional effort in finding/building a group, and coordinating multiple people, and because groups are where social ties are made, but soloing shouldn't be so inferior to grouping that even the most disfunctional of groups nets better xp per hour than the most skilled of soloists could hope for by a factor of 2 or 3.
Lastly, some of my fondest memories of EQLive were on the Stromm server playing my beastlord Zanros Farwanderer in Dulak's Harbor. This was after the "being in a group" xp bonus was put in, but before the proximity requirement was added. There were 5 boats, and a few other soloable camps class depending. I'd zone in, find out a "solo group" was there, ask to join, get invited, and stake out an unused portion of the zone. Then I'd happily solo away.
What made it so good? The soloists were all chatting with each other during and in between kills. We'd announce duplicate LORE item drops for others in the group to come and get, "grats" each other on gem drops or if we dinged a new level or AA, help each other out if we got in trouble, etc. All of it happened because of the reward of bonus experience. When that was nerfed, the solo-groups disappeared. Perhaps that kind of socialization was the exception and not the rule, or perhaps eventually it would have stopped and been the same as normal soloing. Who knows. I just know that I enjoyed the social aspects a lot, and missed those far more than the nerfed xp when they were gone. I don't even play EQLive anymore, and that remains an element of the game I actually miss.
Comment Posted by: Loral on January 28, 2005 08:42 AM
Too much instancing becomes its own problem. I fear that the guild halls will tear most of the population out of Knowledge, the current hub of population in EQ, at least on Quellious.
Instancing too far basically builds strings of single-player or small-group games together rather than focus on a huge world with thousands of players.
Instancing works well for a few dungeons and the instanced guild halls look like as far as I would care to go towards instanced housing. Even then I worry about splitting the population too much.
I know that there are many players unguilded and a few that choose to remain so, but guilds, like groups, are a major functional entity of EQ. In order to get a lot of the enjoyment out of EQ, one should at least try a few different guilds of different types. There are a lot of guilds with many different types of players and different focuses (foci?). Hopefully the Looking for Guild and Guild Looking for Player will help people find the right guild for them and help guilds rebuild after the drought of '04.
Comment Posted by: on January 28, 2005 12:29 PM
To complete this articles topic:
The world is changed: I feel it in the
water, I feel it in the earth, I smell it
in the air...Much that once was is lost,
for none now live who remember it.
It's almost scary, the accuracy.
Comment Posted by: Aladinsane on January 29, 2005 04:24 AM
This is going to be unpopular - sorry
EQ is dead - lets be honest here about it
Those of us who played the game for a few years remember the good times - before luclin i suspect for most people.
Back when you could hardly move in EC for lag :)
I still have my eq account - mainly because the station pass makes it worth while. I have logged on once in the last month - compare the graphics too EQ2 or WoW and then forget eq1 - it was good but....
Main reason why I am enjoying other games - there are few complete cheat/guide sites - lets be honest here - if you know the game you can twink a new char to level 55 in what two days solid play?
turn it over to free play, and charge for add ons i think
Comment Posted by: Pants on January 29, 2005 09:23 AM
I wouldn't say EQ is dead, because it is still up and running technically, but it is dying. In fact every game is dying from the day they go live. None of these games are going to run forever so technically once they are born they will be dying from that point on. The only things that differ between them is how successful they will be while alive and how fast will they die. EQ certainly has had success to this point but seems to be dying somewhat fast, at least faster than I thought it would.
This is just a sign of the times, time has passed EQ by, newer and fresher games have come out that lack the frustrations of the old. It's nothing to lament, and it's pointless to deny it. The very least Sony can do is at make the experience as enjoyable as possible for those who remain. Combine the low population servers, improve the game, continue to run events but at least let people know they are going on. Don't blame players for not doing events, it's their choice whether they want to or not but so many people don't even have the choice because they don't know about them till it's too late. Communication seems to be something Sony has problems with on all levels. They should hire a consultant on this to get some advice on how to do it better.
Comment Posted by: Pomaikai Po'okela on January 29, 2005 11:34 AM
Those all sound like neat and fun events. Unfortunately, the Guides and GM's on Zeb don't do them, or do them so rarely that they don't enter into mass consciousness. They only events they hold are Royal Rumbles in the Arena. BORING! If they want to stem the hemorrage of players to other games then SoE needs to be doing little fun events on ALL the servers, and not just the ones blessed with good GM's. We had one of the best GM's in Brioma, but alas SoE saw her potential as well and moved her to SWG. The days of interesting GM events ended that day on Zebuxoruk. Period.
Comment Posted by: on January 30, 2005 07:41 PM
No offense meant here but if you didn't know something was going on the only one to blame is yourself.
I knew Firiona Vie was missing because it was in the story window when I logged on that day. I knew folks were looking for her because it was in the story window when I logged on that day as well.
So what did I do? Hmmm, FV is a high elf and where do high elves come from? Felwithe! So I trotted over to Felwithe to see what was up and there was the guy standing on the bridge and giving zonewide messages.
Now if you bypass the story window or "don't have time to read that junk" then you can't complain about not knowing about this. It wasn't a secret by any means. Heck, even the message you receive when you log in every day (you know the very first yellow text you see) had something about FV in it too.
Just my $.02.
Comment Posted by: Wombat on January 31, 2005 07:16 PM
When they made all the lore on home cities etc redundant many people, and especially people that started after Luclin, lost track of any lore associated with their races and the game in general. (if they had an interest in the first place)
Resurrecting lore and stories this late in the day requires a bit more energy than information in places that people have got used to ignoring, or zones that are empty.
In looking for a "hook" to sell expansions they concentrated population and newbies away from their cultural roots in factionless PoK and SH. They could have improved transport and services around home cities.
The drive for regular expansions can be quite destructive over time as they have to find new ways to make the expansion "required" and the temptation to take the game in a new direction with it.
Lets face it why do people play fantasy games like EQ? Its not just the challenge of the game its the elves, dwarves and dragons etc. Its the magic. You have to stick to that central theme.
I can remember being a proud dwarf when I was finally allied to my home city paladin guild, I had an identity then.
There need to be more racial differences that matter right through the game at all levels. Faction with NPC's, ability to read certain lore, certain combat abilities (Ogre slam and Troll/Ikky Regen is an example) etc.
Comment Posted by: Old_Man on February 1, 2005 10:13 AM
What are those GM events everyone is talking about?
I played on european prime time, there where never any events (beside automated ones like Halloween).
What I read in the boards, those events where mostly a failure, lacking any thought, beeing for the ubors only, or just beeing ruined by those ubors.
Glad I never had a chance to take part in such things *eg*
Last week the numbers in the bazaar where down to 150, from 450 the days before WoW and EQ2.
It's fair to guess the currrent player numbers are down 2 thirds too.
With pess people playing, the more will quit. EQ is a group game. Besides 2 or 3 solo classes no one is able to do anything without the perfect group.
Comment Posted by: on February 4, 2005 06:35 AM
Hmmm every single GM event save for 1 roleplay one was just a GM slaughtering players. Unless you were topped out in level / aa / gear.. you stood no chance.
Some of them the GM's even used insta proc complete heal items constantly.. weeeeeee lets go get killed by a GM and lose some XP and get squat for it.
Thats what almost all my GM event xp has been, I played for 4 years and went to many many, in hopes that a new GM would acually be able to give some sort of unique quest of equal difficulty for the zone / people.
Best ones were not GM events but scripted zone changes like the halloween stuff.
Comment Posted by: on February 18, 2005 10:47 PM
I agree wholeheartedly...in theory. The problem is, every time I've ever said wow, that sounds really neat, let me go A.)Explore B.)Check it out or C.)adventure it's always turned into a bloody death for me and usually a frustrating corpse recovery. I've never once gotten any type of reward or sense of accomplishment for the risk I needed to take.
If they want players to take part in these events, they need to either decrease the risk or increase the reward attainable. A huge risk with no reward (not just loot or items, but some satisfaction) does not appeal to me...so....I kind of feel forced back to safe zones, easy exp groups and easy going play time...
This work is licensed under a Creative Commons License. Email Mike at email@example.com for more questions or comments.