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	<title>Comments on: Cautionary Tales</title>
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	<link>http://www.mobhunter.com/?p=398</link>
	<description>A delicate blend of sarcasm and spite.</description>
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		<title>By: Success or failure of MMOGs (part 1/3)</title>
		<link>http://www.mobhunter.com/?p=398&#038;cpage=1#comment-109530</link>
		<dc:creator>Success or failure of MMOGs (part 1/3)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Feb 2009 17:30:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mobhunter.com/?p=398#comment-109530</guid>
		<description>[...] Mobhunter (Steve Danuser): Cautionary Tales The real formula for success in the MMO space: start with a clear and brilliant vision, make the [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Mobhunter (Steve Danuser): Cautionary Tales The real formula for success in the MMO space: start with a clear and brilliant vision, make the [...]</p>
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		<title>By: MMOG Nation &#187; On AAA Fantasy MMOs as &#8216;Solved Problems&#8217;</title>
		<link>http://www.mobhunter.com/?p=398&#038;cpage=1#comment-108751</link>
		<dc:creator>MMOG Nation &#187; On AAA Fantasy MMOs as &#8216;Solved Problems&#8217;</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Jan 2009 15:22:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mobhunter.com/?p=398#comment-108751</guid>
		<description>[...] while back Steve Danuser put up a post weighing in on the fate of Tabula Rasa. His was but one of many, with Scott, Damion, Eric, and Adam all putting in their two cents as [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] while back Steve Danuser put up a post weighing in on the fate of Tabula Rasa. His was but one of many, with Scott, Damion, Eric, and Adam all putting in their two cents as [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Too much Fantasy? &#124; NecroRogIcon</title>
		<link>http://www.mobhunter.com/?p=398&#038;cpage=1#comment-108309</link>
		<dc:creator>Too much Fantasy? &#124; NecroRogIcon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Jan 2009 20:51:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mobhunter.com/?p=398#comment-108309</guid>
		<description>[...] Moorgard adds his take to the Tabula Rasa reflections. It&#039;s a good read but I&#039;ll pull out a specific part that caught my eye:  Steve Danuser wrote: [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Moorgard adds his take to the Tabula Rasa reflections. It&#8217;s a good read but I&#8217;ll pull out a specific part that caught my eye:  Steve Danuser wrote: [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Ferrel</title>
		<link>http://www.mobhunter.com/?p=398&#038;cpage=1#comment-108298</link>
		<dc:creator>Ferrel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Jan 2009 17:14:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mobhunter.com/?p=398#comment-108298</guid>
		<description>Wonderful post on the subject and I&#039;m very inclined to agree. I am not &quot;satisfied&quot; with fantasy MMOs. If someone makes a better one, guess what? I&#039;ll go play it. It has nothing to do with genre. My money goes to what is fun and exactly.

You also said something else that I&#039;ve said myself: &lt;blockquote&gt;And it’s so easy to let things slip, especially in an environment where people are more concerned about pride or job preservation instead of being honest about the work and making results the top priority.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I can think of more than one developer, by name, that created and maintained poor content because of pride. He had the &quot;This is my content/zone&quot; attitude and it just killed us as raiders. It ruined our experience and we lost folks because of it.

One failed link in the chain, so to speak, makes a big difference.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wonderful post on the subject and I&#8217;m very inclined to agree. I am not &#8220;satisfied&#8221; with fantasy MMOs. If someone makes a better one, guess what? I&#8217;ll go play it. It has nothing to do with genre. My money goes to what is fun and exactly.</p>
<p>You also said something else that I&#8217;ve said myself:<br />
<blockquote>And it’s so easy to let things slip, especially in an environment where people are more concerned about pride or job preservation instead of being honest about the work and making results the top priority.</p></blockquote>
<p>I can think of more than one developer, by name, that created and maintained poor content because of pride. He had the &#8220;This is my content/zone&#8221; attitude and it just killed us as raiders. It ruined our experience and we lost folks because of it.</p>
<p>One failed link in the chain, so to speak, makes a big difference.</p>
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		<title>By: UnsGub</title>
		<link>http://www.mobhunter.com/?p=398&#038;cpage=1#comment-108289</link>
		<dc:creator>UnsGub</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Jan 2009 16:04:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mobhunter.com/?p=398#comment-108289</guid>
		<description>&quot;What you don’t see are the many people behind the scenes who poured their hearts and souls into those projects only to see them fall apart because somebody else lost focus.&quot;

Is it the focus?  My answer is no.

Where is the game industry to you hear about the leadership and vision that is require to manage, direct, and motivate this huge team of many people?  These recent posts are simple about management failure.

Once they realize they need to solve the management of hundreds of people, which has been solved for longer than recorded history, then they can get on with making games that require many people to make.

How many game companies have management experts verse programming, design, layout or art experts?  Valve is the only one that comes to mind on how they do stuff gets similar attention to what they produce.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;What you don’t see are the many people behind the scenes who poured their hearts and souls into those projects only to see them fall apart because somebody else lost focus.&#8221;</p>
<p>Is it the focus?  My answer is no.</p>
<p>Where is the game industry to you hear about the leadership and vision that is require to manage, direct, and motivate this huge team of many people?  These recent posts are simple about management failure.</p>
<p>Once they realize they need to solve the management of hundreds of people, which has been solved for longer than recorded history, then they can get on with making games that require many people to make.</p>
<p>How many game companies have management experts verse programming, design, layout or art experts?  Valve is the only one that comes to mind on how they do stuff gets similar attention to what they produce.</p>
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		<title>By: Makkaio</title>
		<link>http://www.mobhunter.com/?p=398&#038;cpage=1#comment-108241</link>
		<dc:creator>Makkaio</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Jan 2009 21:40:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mobhunter.com/?p=398#comment-108241</guid>
		<description>It is very tough to keep your eye on the prize.  Especially when you really don&#039;t know what that prize is.  Most people are caught up in the fame and fortune that a successful game may bring...but really...does that keep you motivated?  Everyone on the team has to have a passion for the game.  If they don&#039;t.  That&#039;s a weak link.  Getting that many people to be that passionate about one thing is a very difficult task indeed.  But how are hundreds, thousands, maybe millions of people suppose to be jazzed about your game if people on your team aren&#039;t?  Good points.  While not the most cheery of subjects, a good insight into the reality of making a game on a grand scale.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It is very tough to keep your eye on the prize.  Especially when you really don&#8217;t know what that prize is.  Most people are caught up in the fame and fortune that a successful game may bring&#8230;but really&#8230;does that keep you motivated?  Everyone on the team has to have a passion for the game.  If they don&#8217;t.  That&#8217;s a weak link.  Getting that many people to be that passionate about one thing is a very difficult task indeed.  But how are hundreds, thousands, maybe millions of people suppose to be jazzed about your game if people on your team aren&#8217;t?  Good points.  While not the most cheery of subjects, a good insight into the reality of making a game on a grand scale.</p>
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		<title>By: Kohath</title>
		<link>http://www.mobhunter.com/?p=398&#038;cpage=1#comment-108182</link>
		<dc:creator>Kohath</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 Jan 2009 23:27:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mobhunter.com/?p=398#comment-108182</guid>
		<description>This is very insightful.

It&#039;s sad that our society is increasingly hostile to people who do everything right, succeed, and are financially rewarded by their customers for that success.  After all, it&#039;s not fair to the people who lost focus, who didn&#039;t show up, who phoned it in, and didn&#039;t succeed.

When you can start a project and face all these hurdles, it&#039;s a hard decision whether to take the risk.  If you can look forward to most of the rewards being taken from you if you succeed, you&#039;ll likely decide not to bother.  Even if you&#039;re doing it because you love it, there&#039;s a limit to the amount of money someone will be willing to risk for an ever smaller share of the possible reward.

In order for products to be developed, the rewards for success need to go to the people who provide the money and work to develop the products.  And if we want more products and more people working on creating them (instead of being unemployed), our society needs to increase the rewards for success and try to lower any artificial barriers to that success.

But things are going in the opposite direction.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is very insightful.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s sad that our society is increasingly hostile to people who do everything right, succeed, and are financially rewarded by their customers for that success.  After all, it&#8217;s not fair to the people who lost focus, who didn&#8217;t show up, who phoned it in, and didn&#8217;t succeed.</p>
<p>When you can start a project and face all these hurdles, it&#8217;s a hard decision whether to take the risk.  If you can look forward to most of the rewards being taken from you if you succeed, you&#8217;ll likely decide not to bother.  Even if you&#8217;re doing it because you love it, there&#8217;s a limit to the amount of money someone will be willing to risk for an ever smaller share of the possible reward.</p>
<p>In order for products to be developed, the rewards for success need to go to the people who provide the money and work to develop the products.  And if we want more products and more people working on creating them (instead of being unemployed), our society needs to increase the rewards for success and try to lower any artificial barriers to that success.</p>
<p>But things are going in the opposite direction.</p>
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		<title>By: Zeitalter3 Entwicklerblog &#187; Blog Archiv &#187; Kurz gebloggt: Twitter, Tabula Rasa und Tausende andere Dinge</title>
		<link>http://www.mobhunter.com/?p=398&#038;cpage=1#comment-108175</link>
		<dc:creator>Zeitalter3 Entwicklerblog &#187; Blog Archiv &#187; Kurz gebloggt: Twitter, Tabula Rasa und Tausende andere Dinge</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 Jan 2009 19:22:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mobhunter.com/?p=398#comment-108175</guid>
		<description>[...] Es wird langsam und zögerlich über Tabula Rasa geredet. Immerhin - es lassen sich einige sehr wichtige Lektionen aus dem gescheiterten Mammutprojekt ziehen. Beispielsweise gibt Adam Martin einen Überblick von der Tribüne aus, Scott Jennings antwortet mit seiner Sichtweise der Dinge und Steve Danuser gibt auch noch mal seine Sicht der Dinge dazu. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Es wird langsam und zögerlich über Tabula Rasa geredet. Immerhin &#8211; es lassen sich einige sehr wichtige Lektionen aus dem gescheiterten Mammutprojekt ziehen. Beispielsweise gibt Adam Martin einen Überblick von der Tribüne aus, Scott Jennings antwortet mit seiner Sichtweise der Dinge und Steve Danuser gibt auch noch mal seine Sicht der Dinge dazu. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Buckmaster</title>
		<link>http://www.mobhunter.com/?p=398&#038;cpage=1#comment-108171</link>
		<dc:creator>Buckmaster</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 Jan 2009 10:21:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mobhunter.com/?p=398#comment-108171</guid>
		<description>Of all 3 of the recent blogs on this subject (I have yet to see more) this is the one I align most with.  Good post, I&#039;ll drop my own in the next day or two on this subject.  It is important, because we&#039;ve had far more could-have-beens than we&#039;ve had successes in recent years and  failures are a lot easier to avoid than most think.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Of all 3 of the recent blogs on this subject (I have yet to see more) this is the one I align most with.  Good post, I&#8217;ll drop my own in the next day or two on this subject.  It is important, because we&#8217;ve had far more could-have-beens than we&#8217;ve had successes in recent years and  failures are a lot easier to avoid than most think.</p>
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		<title>By: Yeebo</title>
		<link>http://www.mobhunter.com/?p=398&#038;cpage=1#comment-108121</link>
		<dc:creator>Yeebo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 Jan 2009 09:49:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mobhunter.com/?p=398#comment-108121</guid>
		<description>While I totally agree with your post, I have to snark about one of your links.  The gist of the &quot;fantasy MMOs are a solved problem&quot; was that there are already enough AAA fantasy MMos to satisfy the needs of the market, and that there isn&#039;t really any room for new ones.  Not that &quot;we know how to make AAA fabtasy MMOs.&quot; 

I actually disagree with the post that you linked. Like you I think good games will get played.  If nothing else, WoW (and to some extent Guild Wars) seem to have high enough churn that I think there is plenty of room for more WAR, LoTRO, and EQ II sized sucessess (though I realize that WAR was aiming higher than that).  I suspect the fact of the matter is that the majority of lapsed WoW players aren&#039;t playing another fantasy MMO.  That close to a million players tried out WAR and AoC should say something.  The pooch was not doomed by the potential of the market, Funcom and (to a lesser extent) Mythic screwed it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>While I totally agree with your post, I have to snark about one of your links.  The gist of the &#8220;fantasy MMOs are a solved problem&#8221; was that there are already enough AAA fantasy MMos to satisfy the needs of the market, and that there isn&#8217;t really any room for new ones.  Not that &#8220;we know how to make AAA fabtasy MMOs.&#8221; </p>
<p>I actually disagree with the post that you linked. Like you I think good games will get played.  If nothing else, WoW (and to some extent Guild Wars) seem to have high enough churn that I think there is plenty of room for more WAR, LoTRO, and EQ II sized sucessess (though I realize that WAR was aiming higher than that).  I suspect the fact of the matter is that the majority of lapsed WoW players aren&#8217;t playing another fantasy MMO.  That close to a million players tried out WAR and AoC should say something.  The pooch was not doomed by the potential of the market, Funcom and (to a lesser extent) Mythic screwed it.</p>
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