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	<title>Comments on: You Have Much to Learn, My Young Padawan</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.mobhunter.com/?feed=rss2&#038;p=134" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.mobhunter.com/?p=134</link>
	<description>A delicate blend of sarcasm and spite.</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Wed, 01 Sep 2010 18:34:25 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Loading&#8230; &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Can A World Be A Game?</title>
		<link>http://www.mobhunter.com/?p=134&#038;cpage=1#comment-58091</link>
		<dc:creator>Loading&#8230; &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Can A World Be A Game?</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Feb 2008 17:58:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.moorgard.com/?p=134#comment-58091</guid>
		<description>[...] what constitutes a &#8220;game&#8221; versus what constitutes a &#8220;world&#8221; by Raph Koster, Steve Danuser, Lum and even a blogger I had never read before, but who made some sense, [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] what constitutes a &#8220;game&#8221; versus what constitutes a &#8220;world&#8221; by Raph Koster, Steve Danuser, Lum and even a blogger I had never read before, but who made some sense, [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Gamer Voices 2 - Amber Night</title>
		<link>http://www.mobhunter.com/?p=134&#038;cpage=1#comment-29566</link>
		<dc:creator>Gamer Voices 2 - Amber Night</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Jul 2007 18:11:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.moorgard.com/?p=134#comment-29566</guid>
		<description>[...] latest iteration of what exactly makes a virtual world is making its way across the blogosphere. We asked the community: [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] latest iteration of what exactly makes a virtual world is making its way across the blogosphere. We asked the community: [...]</p>
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		<title>By: bluck</title>
		<link>http://www.mobhunter.com/?p=134&#038;cpage=1#comment-28695</link>
		<dc:creator>bluck</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Jun 2007 13:55:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.moorgard.com/?p=134#comment-28695</guid>
		<description>I found SWG a breath of fresh air -- thank god it wasn&#039;t yet another DIKU dominated by group**** and raid**** (derogatory labels I use but will refrain from posting, but hey if Smed can prattle about &quot;Carebears&quot;*, maybe I should use my labels, too.) I quit long before the NGE (could not stomach the pvp posturing), but any company that so cravenly disregards its player base deserves all the vitriol directed at it. Hindsight not required.


*Reference Smed used in an interview concerning Vanguard.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I found SWG a breath of fresh air &#8212; thank god it wasn&#8217;t yet another DIKU dominated by group**** and raid**** (derogatory labels I use but will refrain from posting, but hey if Smed can prattle about &#8220;Carebears&#8221;*, maybe I should use my labels, too.) I quit long before the NGE (could not stomach the pvp posturing), but any company that so cravenly disregards its player base deserves all the vitriol directed at it. Hindsight not required.</p>
<p>*Reference Smed used in an interview concerning Vanguard.</p>
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		<title>By: Ahrien</title>
		<link>http://www.mobhunter.com/?p=134&#038;cpage=1#comment-28540</link>
		<dc:creator>Ahrien</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Jun 2007 07:46:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.moorgard.com/?p=134#comment-28540</guid>
		<description>I really liked this entry, it sums add my own thoughts about this issue. I played SWG from the beta till the NGE, and even tried it for a few weeks. But I couldn&#039;t bear myself to enjoy, so I left and never came back.

But, as someone else already stated, people usually miss what for me was the most innovative aspect of the game. It was, AFAIK, the first real attempt on leaving the loot-directed-gameplay in benefit of the crafting.

EVERTHING people wore or used was crafted. Until the Kashyyyk expansion loot was nearly non-existant. You could actually be a crafter and feel that you it was your place in the game. And the skill systems leave room for adventuring skills to go out with your friends to enjoy the [few, I will concede that] content.

I enjoy crafting, and craft in every game I play, but I have never found such a complex and purposeful crafting system as the one in SWG. I miss it too much.

PS: BTW, there were some BIG fresly introduced bugs in the crafting the weeks previous to the NGE. Bugs that affected greatly the high-end crafting. This bugs weren&#039;t fixed a year after the NGE release. They switched the focus to adventuring and forgot about crafting a bit too much.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I really liked this entry, it sums add my own thoughts about this issue. I played SWG from the beta till the NGE, and even tried it for a few weeks. But I couldn&#8217;t bear myself to enjoy, so I left and never came back.</p>
<p>But, as someone else already stated, people usually miss what for me was the most innovative aspect of the game. It was, AFAIK, the first real attempt on leaving the loot-directed-gameplay in benefit of the crafting.</p>
<p>EVERTHING people wore or used was crafted. Until the Kashyyyk expansion loot was nearly non-existant. You could actually be a crafter and feel that you it was your place in the game. And the skill systems leave room for adventuring skills to go out with your friends to enjoy the [few, I will concede that] content.</p>
<p>I enjoy crafting, and craft in every game I play, but I have never found such a complex and purposeful crafting system as the one in SWG. I miss it too much.</p>
<p>PS: BTW, there were some BIG fresly introduced bugs in the crafting the weeks previous to the NGE. Bugs that affected greatly the high-end crafting. This bugs weren&#8217;t fixed a year after the NGE release. They switched the focus to adventuring and forgot about crafting a bit too much.</p>
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		<title>By: The Happy Mortal &#187; Blog Archive &#187; A MMORPG Mouthful!</title>
		<link>http://www.mobhunter.com/?p=134&#038;cpage=1#comment-28231</link>
		<dc:creator>The Happy Mortal &#187; Blog Archive &#187; A MMORPG Mouthful!</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 16 Jun 2007 05:22:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.moorgard.com/?p=134#comment-28231</guid>
		<description>[...] and  Moorgard  and a few other regularly-read bloggers have been having a very interesting discussion concerning [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] and  Moorgard  and a few other regularly-read bloggers have been having a very interesting discussion concerning [...]</p>
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		<title>By: WorldIV &#187; May the Force be with You</title>
		<link>http://www.mobhunter.com/?p=134&#038;cpage=1#comment-28216</link>
		<dc:creator>WorldIV &#187; May the Force be with You</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 16 Jun 2007 03:30:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.moorgard.com/?p=134#comment-28216</guid>
		<description>[...] begins with Moorgard&#8217;s salient article.  The virtual world part [of SWG] was, for all its bugs, well done. The social aspects of SWG [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] begins with Moorgard&#8217;s salient article.  The virtual world part [of SWG] was, for all its bugs, well done. The social aspects of SWG [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Aaron</title>
		<link>http://www.mobhunter.com/?p=134&#038;cpage=1#comment-28176</link>
		<dc:creator>Aaron</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Jun 2007 22:04:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.moorgard.com/?p=134#comment-28176</guid>
		<description>The quality of SWG&#039;s initial release goes well beyond social innovations.  

It&#039;s the only MMO I&#039;ve ever played that held an illusion of true wildlife and wilderness.  The creatures were well-animated, and some (like fambaa) seemed to wander.  There was a strong impression of distance and untouched areas.  CoH also has relatively good animations, but even they are more stationary (as I recall, anyway; it&#039;s been a while).

The lore of the world was witnessed in action, rather than merely dialogue and art.  I remember once wandering, by pure happenstance, across a battle between NPC Stormtroopers and Gungans.  That sort of experience is invaluable.

Though they were not made nearly as important and engaging as they could have been, the many small factions (pirates of so-and-so, Tusken raiders, etc.) also aided an impression of a solid RPG world in which a player-character could be tied to things larger than himself.  That&#039;s a gameplay feature (not just virtual fluff)... a seemingly dynamic context that qualifies player actions and choices.

And as Kanzar suggested, the lack of jedi was good design.  It would have been better if a few players had actually been able to unlock jedi slots, as was advertised (I left before the NGE, but I remember there were still no jedi after six or seven months).  But, as I recall, SOE was pretty clear in media releases about the limited number of jedi slots, so players had no reason to expect many jedi (only to hope they&#039;d be the ones to get lucky).

The crafting system put its predecessors to shame.  MMO gamers still refer back to that system when discussing modern designs.

The original SWG wasn&#039;t a failed experiment. It certainly had a number of significant design flaws, but it satisfied many gamer desires that few, if any, other MMOs have addressed.  I had more than a few fun adventures in SWG, but I never expected adventures in the style of single-player games.  Perhaps you were expecting more fixed, linear adventures like that?  Adventures can happen in a sandbox.  

Certainly, the developer can&#039;t take a passive role in the emergence of those sandbox adventures, and SWG could have done much more in that regard... if they had re-shaped the game through additions, instead of substitutions.  The original game needed revision, but nothing so radical as to prompt a move like the NGE.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The quality of SWG&#8217;s initial release goes well beyond social innovations.  </p>
<p>It&#8217;s the only MMO I&#8217;ve ever played that held an illusion of true wildlife and wilderness.  The creatures were well-animated, and some (like fambaa) seemed to wander.  There was a strong impression of distance and untouched areas.  CoH also has relatively good animations, but even they are more stationary (as I recall, anyway; it&#8217;s been a while).</p>
<p>The lore of the world was witnessed in action, rather than merely dialogue and art.  I remember once wandering, by pure happenstance, across a battle between NPC Stormtroopers and Gungans.  That sort of experience is invaluable.</p>
<p>Though they were not made nearly as important and engaging as they could have been, the many small factions (pirates of so-and-so, Tusken raiders, etc.) also aided an impression of a solid RPG world in which a player-character could be tied to things larger than himself.  That&#8217;s a gameplay feature (not just virtual fluff)&#8230; a seemingly dynamic context that qualifies player actions and choices.</p>
<p>And as Kanzar suggested, the lack of jedi was good design.  It would have been better if a few players had actually been able to unlock jedi slots, as was advertised (I left before the NGE, but I remember there were still no jedi after six or seven months).  But, as I recall, SOE was pretty clear in media releases about the limited number of jedi slots, so players had no reason to expect many jedi (only to hope they&#8217;d be the ones to get lucky).</p>
<p>The crafting system put its predecessors to shame.  MMO gamers still refer back to that system when discussing modern designs.</p>
<p>The original SWG wasn&#8217;t a failed experiment. It certainly had a number of significant design flaws, but it satisfied many gamer desires that few, if any, other MMOs have addressed.  I had more than a few fun adventures in SWG, but I never expected adventures in the style of single-player games.  Perhaps you were expecting more fixed, linear adventures like that?  Adventures can happen in a sandbox.  </p>
<p>Certainly, the developer can&#8217;t take a passive role in the emergence of those sandbox adventures, and SWG could have done much more in that regard&#8230; if they had re-shaped the game through additions, instead of substitutions.  The original game needed revision, but nothing so radical as to prompt a move like the NGE.</p>
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		<title>By: Raph&#8217;s Website &#187; What is a virtual world?</title>
		<link>http://www.mobhunter.com/?p=134&#038;cpage=1#comment-28158</link>
		<dc:creator>Raph&#8217;s Website &#187; What is a virtual world?</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Jun 2007 20:31:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.moorgard.com/?p=134#comment-28158</guid>
		<description>[...] response to Lum and Cuppy and Moorgard: Online games and virtual worlds are not the same thing. If youâ€™re building an MMO, you better be [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] response to Lum and Cuppy and Moorgard: Online games and virtual worlds are not the same thing. If youâ€™re building an MMO, you better be [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Rao</title>
		<link>http://www.mobhunter.com/?p=134&#038;cpage=1#comment-28131</link>
		<dc:creator>Rao</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Jun 2007 17:55:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.moorgard.com/?p=134#comment-28131</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve written about this before, but I will say it again.

I honestly think that the largest failing of SWG was placing it in the time frame that they did.  Yes, at launch, SWG had a serious lack of content.  Today, nearly 4 years later, it has a serious lack of content.

The problem is that the game is set in a time where you know what happened before and you know what comes next.  How can you have an MMO with any real content when the ending has already been written?  It becomes a design flaw and, ultimately, self defeating.  It is dangerous to introduce anything that could significantly alter the flow of the story.

True, the MMO doesn&#039;t technically HAVE to follow along with the existing story, but Star Wars fans are borderline fanatical.  Any time anyong suggests something on the SWG boards that might go even slightly against &quot;canon,&quot; there are 20 posts that pop up in seconds linking articles, stories and entries explaining the &quot;proper&quot; way for the SW universe to exist.

The overall best thing to have been done would have been to have SWG take place 10 years of so after Return of the Jedi.  Yes, the EU has touched upon these years, but it is still wide open. Most important, there are not any movies saying, &quot;This is how it is.&quot;  The game could have been much more open-ended in that regard.  Without the constraints of trying to fit into a period of time that many people view as sacred ground, the original development team might have been able to build something much more rich than what we had... thus (possibly) avoiding the brainstorming that lead to the NGE in the first place.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve written about this before, but I will say it again.</p>
<p>I honestly think that the largest failing of SWG was placing it in the time frame that they did.  Yes, at launch, SWG had a serious lack of content.  Today, nearly 4 years later, it has a serious lack of content.</p>
<p>The problem is that the game is set in a time where you know what happened before and you know what comes next.  How can you have an MMO with any real content when the ending has already been written?  It becomes a design flaw and, ultimately, self defeating.  It is dangerous to introduce anything that could significantly alter the flow of the story.</p>
<p>True, the MMO doesn&#8217;t technically HAVE to follow along with the existing story, but Star Wars fans are borderline fanatical.  Any time anyong suggests something on the SWG boards that might go even slightly against &#8220;canon,&#8221; there are 20 posts that pop up in seconds linking articles, stories and entries explaining the &#8220;proper&#8221; way for the SW universe to exist.</p>
<p>The overall best thing to have been done would have been to have SWG take place 10 years of so after Return of the Jedi.  Yes, the EU has touched upon these years, but it is still wide open. Most important, there are not any movies saying, &#8220;This is how it is.&#8221;  The game could have been much more open-ended in that regard.  Without the constraints of trying to fit into a period of time that many people view as sacred ground, the original development team might have been able to build something much more rich than what we had&#8230; thus (possibly) avoiding the brainstorming that lead to the NGE in the first place.</p>
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		<title>By: Cuppytalk &#187; Virtual Worlds = Games?</title>
		<link>http://www.mobhunter.com/?p=134&#038;cpage=1#comment-28118</link>
		<dc:creator>Cuppytalk &#187; Virtual Worlds = Games?</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Jun 2007 16:07:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.moorgard.com/?p=134#comment-28118</guid>
		<description>[...] post by Lum got my mind spinning about the question of the validity of Steve â€œMoorgardâ€ Danuserâ€™s quote: â€œOnline games and virtual worlds are not the same thing. If youâ€™re building an MMO, you [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] post by Lum got my mind spinning about the question of the validity of Steve â€œMoorgardâ€ Danuserâ€™s quote: â€œOnline games and virtual worlds are not the same thing. If youâ€™re building an MMO, you [...]</p>
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