Anatomy of a Quest
by Loral on February 18, 2007
Though in many different formats and many stages of success, quests have always been a cornerstone in massive online roleplaying games. From the earliest hidden quests in Everquest to the constant continuing stream of quests in World of Warcraft, we have seen quests evolve and grow. Today we will pick apart a variety of quest systems and attributes, studying them, poking them, and understanding what makes a good quest and what makes a bad one. Let us begin.
In the early days, there existed little to the quest system in Everquest. Possessed items tracked progress through quests. One talks to quest giver A to receive a bag. Hand the bag to quest fellow B and receive a note to give to quest fellow C for a new shining sword. Lose the bag or the note and you lose progress. This changed during the Planes of Power where character flags could keep track of a character's progress through quests. The quest system did little to help characters track their quests.
During Lost Dungeons of Norrath, Sony added a new system called the "adventure" system. Now a group of players could receive a single quest for the party, enter an instance designed around that quest, and complete the task to receive adventure points for new gear. Though limited to four quest types; collection, kill X, kill boss, or rescue; this system would evolve into the mission system contained in Dragons of Norrath, Depths of Darkhollow, and the recent release of The Buried Sea. The adventure / mission system would be a quest mechanic that continues to elude Blizzard in World of Warcraft.
World of Warcraft completely changed how people thought about quests. From the first ten minutes of adventure, the quest system clearly becomes the game people actually play. A vast world of scorched earth, snowy peaks, and lush forests surrounds eight million players who stare at their quest log in a futile effort to get back to that first moment of pure bliss: an empty quest log.
The quest log for World of Warcraft BECAME the game people played. Quests went in, quest steps were followed, quests were completed, new quests came in. Quests moved players from city to city, showed them the lands around them, and showed them the variety of creatures to slay. Quests in World of Warcraft help level and equip characters from their first level to their last.
At the Austin Game Conference keynote, Rob Pardo of Blizzard explained how quests drove everything in World of Warcraft. They're used to show the player the variety of areas and encounters. They help new players fit right into the game and understand basic concepts that they'll hold throughout their career. World of Warcraft is a game driven by quests. The quests in World of Warcraft ensure that players always have a purpose and always have a goal.
What makes a good quest? A good quest should contain just enough story to motivate a character but not so much that the player simply skips it. Every quest takes attention away from every other quest. Players want to move forward, not spend time considering every plot shift in a detailed storyline that really comes down to "collect four glowing rocks".
Quests should clearly represent their scope. This is one where WoW fails. Players should clearly recognize the quests with long multi-step story arcs as something different from the one-time collection quests. While the first steps don't have to be the most exciting events in the game, it should be clear that those early steps will lead to a much greater reward. Currently in WoW, the only way to know that a quest is an arc is either to look it up on a website or learn about it from someone else.
Quests should bring players together, not set them apart. Everquest's mission system is currently the most advanced quest system for bringing players together, giving them all a single goal, and giving them the environment they need to accomplish it. Rewards from these group quests should be greater than anything they could achieve as an individual. If the intent is to strengthen the relationships between players in an MMO, soloing should not be more productive than grouping.
Consider the differences between World of Warcraft's instances and the mission system in Everquest. In World of Warcraft, players will decide on their own that it is probably within their interests to hunt in an instance. They might ask their friends along, ask nearby players, or use the "Looking for Group" systems to find other interested players. When they get together, they might share quests for that instance, although any player who has already accomplished a quest cannot repeat it nor can anyone share a quest from within a quest chain. Individuals may be at different parts in their quests. Player A might only need three more "silver ores" while Player B still needs seven. This drives a wedge between players. Instead of all players working on a common goal, each player is in it for himself or herself.
The Everquest mission system assigns a quest to every member in a group. If anyone in the group completes any of the steps, it is completed for the group. The group is treated as a single entity and this helps tie the group together. The goals of each member is the exact same as the goals for the group.
Quests should also empower a player, not drag them down. When players feel like their are doing menial chores, they feel like their only motivation to finish is the specific tangable reward. The term "grinding" becomes frequently attached to such quests. Collecting eight owl feathers at level 62 doesn't show a player how powerful they have become. It isn't worthy. If one offers such a quest, one better make it a quick one.
Quests should always reveal the reward and let the player decide if it is worthwhile. Both Everquest and World of Warcraft include this feature though neither does it well for quest arcs. If I am beginning a five-step quest arc, I should know what rewards I will receive for completing the whole arc.
While the high number of Warcraft quests helps players always walk through small tangible quests over their character's career, they do build in a frantic drive to get from Point A to Point B. It isn't easy to point out exactly why, but World of Warcraft is far from a relaxed game. The constant drive to find and finish quests takes away from the player's ability to find his or her own quest or path through the world. Though it is easy to say that the World of Warcraft system removed the desire to sit and camp in a single hunting spot simply to earn experience, some of the freedom of the game is lost in the process. No doubt the World of Warcraft system is an improvement, but there still remains room for further improvement.
Every two years we see a drastic improvement in how massive online games improve in gameplay. From the simple item-based retrieval quests in Everquest to the mission system, to the constant tracking and progress of quests in World of Warcraft, each generation seems to bring new and exciting ways to play in these online worlds. Who can tell us what the future holds.
Loral Ciriclight
19 February 2007
loral@loralciriclight.com
Comment Posted by: Zolina on February 19, 2007 09:09 AM
Loral and I worked through the first three siren quests from the pirate camp yesterday. There were no write-ups available except for the first one, so we had some surprises in store figuring out what needed to be done. One thing that bugged us about the last two was that you have to fight off waves of up to a dozen highly-resistant, magic-reflecting mobs; even with Anguish gear, we wiped once each in quest two and three, and we never did figure out how to finish quest three. I shudder to think how frustrated folks with lesser gear will be with TBS when even the entry level starter quests are this tough.
Comment Posted by: wiggles on February 19, 2007 12:34 PM
EQ1 has begun a very nasty quest design the last two expansions. You get assigned solo tasks but they take a full group to do. It's all but impossible to have people at the same stages so you end up doing things over and over and over. That is if you're lucky to find anyone willing to do them since they moved ahead. Terrible, terrible design and it needs to stop.
BTW, mission three is kill 30 siren's, loot 10 heads (I found them in the middle of the island). Then a boat appears (actually came before completely all the steps) on the coast where you come in. Kill all the sirens guarding it. You shouldn't be getting a dozen mobs at once, they do have very long aggro range though so stay back. I beat mission 2 with don/dod geared peeps with no deaths first time trying and not knowing what to expect.
Comment Posted by: Zolina on February 19, 2007 05:43 PM
Whoops, I just found out today that the level 75 ranger harmony is sold off a merchant in Sunderock Springs. Time to give this quest another try. But yes, we did get about a dozen mobs on the first pull without harmony.
Comment Posted by: BeingDryHumpedByAbsorForFiveYearsAndCounting on February 20, 2007 03:52 AM
Loral,
All told, a pretty good write up. Though your personal bias against WoW not telling you the end result of the quest chain does shine though.
I'm am disappointed though that you failed to recognize what wiggles pointed out.
Look at the last several expansion. Most have large numbers of "solo" quests given out as "adventures", these how ever are effectively impossible to complete at the level given solo.
The net result is the exact mechanic you slam WoW for having; lots of people out for thier own interest rather than a group goal.
On the topic of "end result", let also not forget that most EQ quests tell you almost nothing about thier end result. So without outside spoiler sites, most people would have no idea what items actually will drop as a result of any instanced adventure.
Anyway, in general, it seems more like this article was a "EQ" good, "WoW" bad, article. It really doesn't seem to have any point by point on quest arch mechanics, styles, interfaces, etc. I.e. I'm not seeing the "Anatomy of a Quest" here, just more a case of you like TBS's quests and don't like WoW's mechanic of making quests available if you choose to accept them at all levels.
Comment Posted by: Bonzz on February 20, 2007 11:46 AM
I agree with Loral. The quests set the tone of the game, and WOW's quests make it feel like a single player game until the very highest levels. With all EQ's faults, it fosters strong friendships and a need to trust others to accomplish anything. Just depends which style of play you prefer.
Comment Posted by: Teremar on February 20, 2007 02:09 PM
You make some good points in this article, Loral. But the issues you raise about grouping and quests in WoW seem to me to be hypothetical problems that rarely if ever come up in practice.
Quests designed for groups are clearly marked "Group" or "Dungeon." Yes, if you're doing solo quests in a group you'll have issues with some people getting done before others, etc. These are usually solved by the simple rule that the group makes sure everyone completes the quest before moving on. But you specifically mention instances, which means Dungeon quests. Those are designed to be done as a group, and it shows:
First, if there's an item you need to get, it's usually marked "Unique" which (ironically enough) means everyone can loot their own copy. If you kill Nazan, everyone can loot his head and turn it in. This is by far the most common type of dungeon quest.
Second, when there is a dungeon quest to collect an item that is not unique, it's almost always common enough that a successful run will produce more than enough of the item to for everyone to complete the quest. Also, once someone gets enough of the quest item to complete the quest, they can't loot any more of them. So even if you ninja all the troll tempers, that just means you finish the quest before I do. It only prevents me from completing the quest if we then fail to complete the dungeon.
Third, if there's an action you need to take (like explore a specific area or talk to a specific person) doing so usually requires that the group first successfully defeat the mobs in the area. You can't successfully "Explore the Blood Furnace" as an individual until your group kills Keli'dan the Breaker.
Finally, and most importantly, boss mobs in dungeons drop great loot independent of any quests (or people would never go back after completing all the quests). Thus everyone in the group automatically shares the implicit quest "Kill the bosses and get phat lewts." Dungeons are also pretty good xp. Thus you don't need to have a quest to benefit from a successful dungeon run.
The bottom line is that a WoW instance group already has plenty of incentives to work together and successfully complete the dungeon. Yes, there's the occasional conflict over skipping a particular boss that only one person needs and such, but that's the exception--and in my experience the rule is almost always "Do everything anyone needs." I certainly wouldn't object to additional quests that are explicitly given to the group, more like LDoN, but I don't see not having them as a major failing.
A side note on quest sharing: when someone joins an instance group and immediately asks people to share quests, my first thought is "You are not prepared!" And then I hope they're not the main tank or main healer. In my experience the skilled players know the quests for the instances they want to do, and if they didn't get them beforehand they are at least apologetic about it. But that most likely did involve some research on the web. I'm all in favor of your idea of marking quests that are part of a chain, but I'd vote for it also saying if the chain involves a group, dungeon, or raid quest (and ideally distinguishing between 10-man and 25-man raids). That would go a long way toward helping people have those dungeon quests ahead of time, and prevent non-raiders from wasting time on a chain that ends up requiring a raid to finish.
Now for your comment that ubiquitous quests take away from the player's freedom: clearly we wouldn't be playing MMORPG's if we weren't the kind of people who respond to virtual incentives. But we're not Pavlov's dogs. If an empty quest log is bliss, the Abandon Quest button is only a few mouse clicks away. More realistically, if you're not in the mood to do quests, don't! If you want to sit in one place and kill mobs, go for it. (Given travel time and such you'll probably get more xp/hour that way than by questing anyway.) A quest log is a sort of to-do list, but there's no penalty for not doing it. I know there's a certain guilt the first time you say "No, I'm not going to do this quest" (and it would help if you knew you weren't giving up an amazing chain by doing so). But the guilt goes away, trust me. And it's very liberating.
I don't think it's too much to ask, at least for veteran MMORPG players, that people take responsibility for having fun in the game. Do what you enjoy, don't do what you don't enjoy--it's not rocket science The nice thing about WoW is that there is a lot of support for many playstyles. Want to solo? Solo. Want to group? You can spend essentially all your time grouped starting from at least level 20 if that's what you enjoy. Want to raid? Raid. Granted some playstyles ran out of content faster than others in the past. But I have no sympathy for those who don't do what they claim do enjoy doing and then complain that they weren't forced to do it.
Comment Posted by: xsi on February 20, 2007 05:13 PM
I actually noticed the same thing Loral mentions when I played EQ2 back at release. The sheer # of quests I was getting really made me feel like I was just marking things off of a list rather than adventuring; scour my log to figure out what was what, run to zone a to do Y, and then back to the quest-giver. Rinse. Repeat. Further, because I wanted to keep zoning to a minimum, I'd end up having to isolate all the quests that had some step to do in the zone I was currently in, and do all of them before moving on. It actually became rather tedious, even in comparison to the old EQ 'camp a spot for hours' methodology.
As others have pointed out though, this is what TSS has basically introduced in EQ. I have a group of three drakkin... and, even though we mostly play together, our quest logs are all over the place because of the few times we have done something else, or because we have run out of time to repeat the qeust 3x. BECAUSE so many quests are solo tasks, (yet must be done as a group), we continually find ourselves having to kill a named gnoll 3 times, loot x ore 12 times, etc. Basically everything the shared task system was put into place to solve.
I think SOE still needs to figure out how to take that shared task system of DoN/DoD and apply it to a non-instanced setting like TSS. The advent of solo quests that could not be accomplished solo, and thus necessitated multiple run-throughs, was a big step backwards for the game.
On an entirely separate note, I'm looking forward to the article on the continued debacle of itemization in EQ. Hope to read it soon.
Comment Posted by: Sunshadow on February 20, 2007 05:53 PM
On the Weekend I picked up a solo TBS faction quest requiring to kill a series of mobs in Thalassius + 1 of 2 named. I was grouped with 2 rangers and we managed to get the named and all the mobs except the 10 Harquin cause they all summon. So I am stuck now.
Another Solo Quest "Ravaging servents" is kill 5 of 3 different type of elementals. The fire ones we could do, the water ones are a pita due to high self heal and mem blur but we are working on them, however the earth ones Summon so once we finish the others we will be stuck again.
Why create solo mission that can't be done solo? Fine group missions exist for when I can group cause I and everyone else wants Orum/Doubloons. But while I am LFG or only have a 1/2 hour or so to play it would be nice to be able to whittle away these faction quests which have no real reward apart from 75p or faction.
Comment Posted by: Naladini on February 20, 2007 09:14 PM
"Why create solo mission that can't be done solo?"
It goes back to language, choice of words. These aren't solo missions. They're solo obtainable missions, a key difference.
There are a lot of us out there who would love to see real solo focused missions in EQ. That being said, this appears to be something the EQ Devs don't feel the game can support just yet in terms of class balance and solo abilities.
Solo obtainable missions are something that you can pick up and start exploring with zero "social cost", and then work on getting some folks to help you finish off, ideally, less than a full group.
It's not exactly what a lot of us are looking for, but its definitely a step forward for the game.
Comment Posted by: Skuz on February 21, 2007 10:33 AM
Personally I think the "Solo Obtainable" quests introduced to everquest are a step backwards, trying to do something WoW does but just doesn't work all that well in EQ, the general consensus is that a mission or task that only appears on your personal quest log should be something that is achievable for you as a solo player.
It's not new either, the DoN progression tasks are the first example that springs to mind, however those tasks were easily duoable bar a few exceptions, lately the tasks that can be duoed are the exception and personal tasks in TSS took on a whole other order of meaning with personal tasks that required a group & some even required a raid to complete!!
EQ is a group game & missions should retain this group element, solo/personal tasks should be personally achievable & not require groups or raids to complete, it takes the focus away from working as a team & forces you to think Me, Me, Me.
I think EQ needs for there to be some things that can be done solo, I'd even venture to say that the game before the last 5 current level max should be reachable solo by way of solo missions & tasks that take you on adventures throughout Norraths lands. But the level at which most active players exist should always be group focused & have minimal solo content, the aim of the rest of the game should be to allow them to reach that level, but provide an entertaining journey on the way there, spending all day looking for people at level 30 or 40 etc to group with to achieve any progress is not entertaining.
Comment Posted by: P'sox on February 21, 2007 10:56 AM
Loral said "Quests should also empower a player, not drag them down. When players feel like their are doing menial chores, they feel like their only motivation to finish is the specific tangable reward. The term "grinding" becomes frequently attached to such quests."
Hence why my Demiplane-flagged level 75 druid still does not have her 1.5. From the 10 RL hours to forage the starter item in Rathe Mts (and yes my forage was maxed before I started that) to having to do the Tox Forest part 5 times b/c I simply didn't find the exact pixel to stand on while spamming a hotkey for 30 minutes...
It's a series of totally pointless tasks, most of which have zero to do w/ what makes a druid a druid. (Go see posts on druid forums about what a druid is/should be!!). There is no excitement about what comes next... whoopie... track a madman (if he actually spawns)... whoopie... spam hotkeys for half an hour...
BAH, I tell you! BAH!
At least even w/ the solo quests that take a group there is comraderie and experience to be gained. I've done most of the initial TSS quests multiple times for guildmates and not minded a bit b/c there are rewards that are immediate for me as well as for them.
(Note: my cleric has his 1.5 and his orb for 2.0 but they keep releasing new expansions requiring new flags before I can go back and do his 2.0! That epic --even w/ my lousy luck and 4+ hrs to get the Barindu piece -- at least has immediate and significant purpose w/in group/raid. Druid epic is nice and all but not make/breaking.)
Comment Posted by: Sunshadow on February 21, 2007 04:43 PM
I agree EQ is a group game. So much so, that last night I made the decision to retire my Necro main cause she can rarely get groups invites and it is too much of a hassle tring to start a tank group as a necro. (Kite groups are not allowed in EQ by the way) see above post for reference. My new main is a lvl 25 cleric. Hopefully when he levels up a bit I will be able to see all the stuff I am missing atm. Shame though I really like being a Necro :(
Comment Posted by: Bonzz on February 22, 2007 02:46 AM
kite groups not allowed? huh ?
Comment Posted by: Keisa on February 22, 2007 09:49 AM
In an expansion with more non summoning mobs ever, he's complaining about not being able to kite. Isn't it ironic.
Keisa
Comment Posted by: Sunshadow on February 22, 2007 04:53 PM
As this whole thread is about the nature of quests then yes I do complain. I currently have 5 open quests from Katta which cannot be completed due to them requiring summoning mobs to be killed.
Sure the new expansion contains heaps of non summoning mobs I can use for xp, but how does that help my quests. There are those of us within the comunity who don't give a rats about grinding all day, its been 2 months I think since I actually consiously killed mobs for the sole reason of gaining xp. Hell it's probably been as long since I popped lesson. I like to explore, do quests, tradeskill and if I have time I like to group as well.
However in TBS if you want anything nice from this expansion, you need currency and faction. Currency I can buy (albiet at a high price), but faction I cannot buy. So as far as TBS is concerned a tank group is required unless you are uber. Kite groups are not allowing quests to be finished or missions.
Comment Posted by: Keisa on February 22, 2007 05:30 PM
I do know a couple of quests you can do that give faction and the mobs don't summon. You can get The Snake Slayer quest to kill 20 shissars, and as it happens, the herb collection quest, which just happens to be killing shissars. So, you can do both quests together and get faction, no orux.
Earth elementals root and summon, I think. Portal activation has some mobs that summon or silence at various phases, but I know a lot of people solo those. Some of the Thal mobs summon, so that would be a hard solo.
BTW, I have pretty much Anguish level gear and can slow and use a pet to tank so I can heal, and I find soloing mobs in Katta difficult. I envy snare root classes that an kite the mobs.
Keisa
Comment Posted by: Sunshadow on February 22, 2007 09:15 PM
Well, I am basically bazaar equiped with no raid gear at all. So our level of accomplishment is quite different.
Comment Posted by: Zwieback on February 22, 2007 10:21 PM
I wish that there were truely solo quests that were worth something. I don't mind that some require a group, but you don't always have a group and it would be nice to have somethng other than Trade Skills to work on while you wait for folks to get home and log in.
Comment Posted by: MMOGaming on February 22, 2007 10:53 PM
Going to Hi-jack this thread for a bit but I came across this article in a Vanguard Forum which dates back to last year. It talks about "Bad Buisness Practices at SOE. I've never heard if this issue before but was wondering if anyone here can shed somelight on this article or maybe some details to what happened after the release.
CBS Article:
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/12/20/tech/gamecore/main1146894.shtml
And of course someones rebuttal I believe:
http://aggrome.blogspot.com/2006/02/defending-soe.html
Comment Posted by: Naladini on February 22, 2007 11:11 PM
I'm not really up on a lot of SWG stuff at the moment, but here's some perspective from a couple of folks.
http://www.swgcraft.com/forum/showthread.php?t=25197
and
http://swg.blindzebra.com/summit-debrief.asp
Comment Posted by: Aarkan on February 23, 2007 03:06 PM
Um... That's all ancient news.
Comment Posted by: Keisa on February 23, 2007 05:35 PM
Sunshadow: "Well, I am basically bazaar equiped with no raid gear at all. So our level of accomplishment is quite different."
Now that is really interesting, because I was always told that gear didn't make nearly as much difference to a necro. I mean, providing that you have adequate gear, so long as the mob you are facing doesn't summon or root or cast any debilitating spells, you should be able to own it, right? That is nothing like beastlords that have to solo mobs toe to toe.
Keisa
Comment Posted by: Zolina on February 24, 2007 09:28 AM
Ugh, had another nasty quest experience, good old Confront Emperor Zaakhiszh. Yard trash hits for 3k. Kill practically everything in zone (takes about 3 hours with a bard puller) to get to the boss. Boss spawns 2-3 adds every 30 seconds. Soldiers hit for 3k and can be mezed, others hit for less and can be OTed, 4th wave Emperor comes alive and hits for 4k. We had a strategy down, but the Emperor also FDs the tank, which kills off the cleric and the OTs in short order, causing a wipe. I'm sure the quest designer meant well, but 3+ hour grinds ending in chaotic wipes aren't the best way to keep players entertained.
Comment Posted by: Sunshadow on February 25, 2007 04:35 PM
Gear does make a difference to necros but probably less so than other classes. Basically as long as I can get snare to land and not runout of mana the mob is dead. The problem I am having is that I am running out of mana on one mob due to the lack of efficency in the 70+ necro spells and the huge HP pools of the TBS mobs. This makes soloing in TBS a pita for me. I usually look for someone I can duo with or hunt elsewhere.
Comment Posted by: SomeoneNolrogWillNoDoubtFlame on March 1, 2007 04:49 PM
Loral,
I wanted to stop by and bid you a farewell.
I've enjoyed the articles over the years. Though I do admit, I miss the old tenants biting humor prior to him becoming a SOE pawn.
All told you seem to have a pretty good idea on what the state of the game is, and what it's issues are.
I want to share with you one last opinion. It's the same as I sent in an email to the CEO of both Sony America, and to our dear Smed; CEO of SOE.
Everquests issues boil down essentially to one pure think: A lack of communication.
The producer, the programmers and the devs all refuse to communicate exactly what is being fixed, and what order it's being fixed in. The net result is, no one has any expectation anything is being fixed, just more crap is being tossed out. SOE desperately needs to get a clue and go earn back the trust of the players, not just the sycophant fan boys.
Content: Levels may go from 1-75, but even a pole axed moron reaslizes that the devs' no longer mean "level 70". They mean, level 70 plus 300 misc aa's, plus maxed defensive aa's, plus an average of 200hp/mana per equipment slot. SOE desperately needs to get thier collective heads out of thier ass and publish what the minimum character specs are to actually make use of new expansions, and for that matter the zones in the last 4 expansions. People shouldn't have to shell out $30 and be miserable for a month only to find out there's not way 80% of the "new content" is bared from them.
It all boils down to communication. There's no reason to believe SOE at this point. Too many times what they've said in misc chats and posts has proven months later to have been lies.
They need to earn back the casual players trust, those that still play. Those players need to be won over so that they will use word of mouth to get new players and so momentum will build again.
Otherwise it will be fanboys, and people who have become addicted to the current raiding game.
Anyway. Ive burnt my bridges, God knows if there's any justice in the world, Smedley has have my accounts deleted by now after the email I sent out.
For you Loral, I know your invested in the game and it still matters to you. Do what you can for those that still care. Best luck and may the RNG always favor you.
Oh, before I forget... Got one last thing I need to do...
/rude Nolrog.
And with that, I'm off to delete a URL from my favorites.
/laugh
Comment Posted by: Nolrog on March 3, 2007 07:23 AM
>>> Everquests issues boil down essentially to one pure think: A lack of communication.
I agree with you there. I think the communication could be much improved. Take the producer's letter for example. I've always found the EQ2 producers letter much more detailed and informative than EQs was; in EQ, the producer's letter always seemed to be very brief and gave no insight into what was going on. In EQ2, they would post the patch message on the test server page so everyone knew what was going on and what was planned in that month's Live Update. For a short while, they did this with EQ, but I haven't seen anything like that in ages.
It's funny; two games within the same company and the way they do things is totally different between the two (communication is not the only thing. EQ2's Echoes of Faydwer came out in box form, as a compilation, while EQs TSS was DL only; even though they were both a 1-max level expansion and people have been clamoring for a new EQ compilation for ages.)
>>> /rude Nolrog.
Right back at you. I'm sure you'll stop back and check in, so I'll flame you next time. Until then, take care.
Comment Posted by: The Real Bonzz on March 3, 2007 05:24 PM
Hello Mobhunters.
I am posting off topic because someone -- for whatever reason -- has been posting on this site seemingly trying to pass themselves off as me.
Some of you may know me from my Paladin site.
This person has been posting as BONZZ.
That alone, can be coincidental, however, he has also been using my AOL e-mail address (bonessgt@aol.com).
This is NOT appreciated so I am posting here to reveal the fraud.
Comment Posted by: Aethn on March 4, 2007 04:28 PM
Bonzz is not a very unique name, I would not lose to much sleep over it.
There are 19 Bonzz on EQplayers.com, ever think that maybe the Bonzz poster is using HIS real name also and your getting worked up over nothing at all?
Hell EQ2 has 6, World of Wardcraft has 21. Even Vanguard has one already.
Comment Posted by: Eki on March 6, 2007 12:00 PM
While the latest expansion is interesting with plenty of quests and the return of the boats, it offers almost nothing for the small group, the solo player or any chars under level 70. The guild flags are much used as a quick way to assemble a raid and very popular.
Many players who have been disappointed by the last few expansions haven't bought TSS so it's harder to find groups to play there. A good, solid high level group can find a camp that gives good rewards, but it's mostly the grind kind of work with lots of boxers sitting hour after hour in the same spot rather than the exploratory adventuring of the old expansions.
I find myself playing lower alts in the zones that require some tactics and knowledge of the layout .. the invisible walls and bridges, death from careless falls etc. since the corpse retrieval system in the guild lobby has mostly removed the terror of taking chances in dangerous places.
There is a strong faction element in the new zones and also a new type of currency. I haven't accumulated any new coin so I'm unsure if what it buys is valuable. Maybe someone can comment? It may be like the ebon and radiant crystals where, by the time the augs they buy are equipible (level 70 required mostly), you really don't need them because you have better.
Logging on at non raid times, there are lots of guildies and friends who want to group, but, without a strong, full group, no one can think of anything that is doable except for a boring grind.
Comment Posted by: The Real Bonzz on March 7, 2007 02:52 AM
Read a little closer Aethn.
I said using Bonzz can be coincidental. However he is also using my e-mail address. That is no coincidence.
Comment Posted by: Vamirez on March 7, 2007 04:30 AM
Its always a matter of perception. Generally people seem to feel that they can do less than they actually can.
I think that in TBS there is content usable for soloers, small groups and full groups of different power levels. It actually strikes me as friendly towards different setups. Most mobs don't summon - nice for soloers. You can do the pirate missions with half a group or not perfectly-mixed group of level 75 chars or a full group of weaker chars. XP are still very good - mobs are high-level, but seem not powerful for their level. If you don't manage that because you're not 70 yet or your gear is abysmal, you can still do the stuff in Barren Coast (tasks for XP, money, faction).
In TSS you can do even more, it has content for any char or combination of chars of any level. It also has interesting tasks, nice XP and nice gear (no need to shop bazaar really). Go look for it, its there.
But that's the one step many people don't do... They say, for example, there's nothing to explore like there used to be. But that's wrong. They don't go and do it - they simply decided that it is so, without checking, maybe because someone else said it, maybe because they quickly decided its too difficult, which it isn't.
Comment Posted by: Sunshadow on March 7, 2007 04:57 PM
Vamirez, you are so wrong. Sure I can solo in TBS but what is the incentive for anyone to do so. At 75 what upgrades does "the buried sea" and pirate missions offer me? the odd Aug is about it. Katta yes I can solo some mobs and do some missions. But Library heist is getting old real quick and the greenhouse is perma camped atm. So that leaves grinding XP. TBS mobs have more HPS than any previous expansion so were is the incentive for soloists to grind there. There ain't any!
Comment Posted by: RosesAreRed on March 7, 2007 07:02 PM
TRUE !! Mobs may not summon but they have TONS of HP !! Don't even think about even the ones just outside the gates unless you are over 70 and well equipped.
I have tried the very fun Hide and Seek quest in Atiiki. New currency and faction IF you can figure out the patterns.
Comment Posted by: Vamirez on March 8, 2007 06:19 AM
Upgrades at 75 from BS/Pirate Missions? If there aren't any for you (skeletal hand of Dagmire, anyone?) and you wouldn't do the content there for fun even once (which would keep you busy and entertained for weeks), move on to Katta (like you said).
And in Katta there is one mission that bores you and another place you find interesting is often camped. Your conclusion is that this leaves only camping XP? There should actually be more to do than that. Its simply not true that there is nothing else worth to do, to camp or to explore.
If you don't want to grind XP because the mobs take you too long to kill, well, at least kill them for a task and collect some Orux to buy gear - if that is the only thing in the game that motivates you. If you like, invite 1-2 LFGs and make it quicker. Crawl the zone at the same time - more fun than camping and you have a chance of finding interesting spots you didn't know yet.
See for yourself instead of simply deciding that there is nothing worthwhile to do. Did you talk to all the NPCs and had a look at the available tasks yourself? Many people just don't - they do what other people say and ignore everything else.
The other poster complained that you can only solo in Katta when you're over 70 and well geared. Well, of course! If that zone is too difficult for your char solo, go to an easier one - try Steppes, for example.
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