The Dangers of Progression, The Serpent's Spine, SOE's Vanguard
by Loral on May 16, 2006
The Antonican bards lean against their trees, leather bags empty. Little news from the lands of Norrath crosses the desks of the fifty gnomish editors of Mobhunter, so we focus this article on what little news we hear.
The Progression Server
Many players paid much attention to the Progression server, coming in June. SOE sent out a press release containing previously reported details and announcing a release in June 2006. The server will be named "The Combine".
I worry that both players and Everquest developers place too much anticipation on the progression server. We still do not know how popular the server will be when players realize the tedium involved in things such as travel and corpse recovery. While many players complained about the Knowledge stones and feel the corpse altar removed the thrill of danger in EQ, we do not know if these same players will actually play instead of talk about it on the forums.
I for one still remember the tedium involved with long-term travel. I remember how awful corpse recovery was from failed Vox raids. I remember camping to chat and buffing each member of a raid at a time. I remember dying in some unknown area at a low level and having no idea how I would recover my equipment. I don't want to return to those days.
I wrote an article for Caster's Realm late last year called "Why a Classic Server is a Bad Idea" and I feel that many of the points are still valid.
SOE has spent six years coming out with improvements to Everquest. While not every improvement has been positive, many of those that were will be locked on the progressive server. All of those positive features, all of those improvements, will not be available for some time.
Time will tell whether the progression server is popular or not. I will keep a keen eye on it and, for the effort spent developing it, I hope it succeeds in its goal to draw more players back to EQ.
The Serpent's Spine
Rumors on the EQ Live forums and some investigative work by those with far too much time on their hands, has revealed the likely title for the next expansion: The Serpent's Spine. No other new information has been revealed except that SOE designers stated that while level 80 is not entirely out of the question, it is much more likely to increase the level range to 75. Given the difficulty in creating new items, disciplines, spells, and AAs at each level, and the great amount of new content discussed in the new expansion, we are very likely to see the cap at level 75, not higher.
Vanguard co-published by Sony Online Entertainment
In surprising news and resulting in a great gnashing of many sets of cynical teeth, SOE and Sigil Games Online announced that the two companies would co-produce Brad McQuaid's Vanguard: Saga of Heroes massive online role playing game.
While this stirred up great controversy, the outcome is likely not nearly as exciting.
Since Everquest, Sony Online Entertainment has acted as a sort of service provider for other massive online games. By consolidating resources such as technical support centers, data centers, backup and recovery, network connectivity, and in-game support, SOE can support a wider range of games much cheaper than any single company could on its own. We saw this recently with Matrix Online, added to SOE's extensive collection of MMOs including Everquest Online Adventures, Everquest 2, and Planetside.
Moving Vanguard to SOE makes sense if any game hopes to have any longevity. By running many games off of the same resources, SOE can afford to keep games alive much longer than a company producing only a single game. Expect to see more massive online games falling to one or two MMO service provider companies.
None of this speaks to any change in the direction of Vanguard or Everquest. The development teams are still separate and exclusive in their focus and direction.
Such ends the news for this period of slow news. Our spies will keep their ears open for any vibrations in Mobhunter's great web of information and pass along any such vibrations to you, our dear readers.
Loral Ciriclight
16 May 2006
loral@loralciriclight.com
Comment Posted by: Aarkan on May 16, 2006 11:28 PM
SOE is not co-producing Vanguard, it is only publishing it. Sigil still has total control over the product, SOE is gonna do advertising and hosting the game. They aren't going to be castrating it.
Comment Posted by: jdaihe on May 17, 2006 03:04 AM
Oh great. I expect the same superior level of Customer Service to continue with Vanguard. Anyone remember the $99 EQ Anniversary deal that was supposed to automatically recur annually? SOE flat out lied to their subscribers. Check out EQ Forums for details of the fiasco.
Comment Posted by: ezez on May 17, 2006 04:15 AM
Talk about a slow month
Is this really all there's left to write about?
Seems so.
Comment Posted by: Armarant on May 17, 2006 05:10 AM
Jdaihe wrote:Oh great. I expect the same superior level of Customer Service to continue with Vanguard. Anyone remember the $99 EQ Anniversary deal that was supposed to automatically recur annually? SOE flat out lied to their subscribers. Check out EQ Forums for details of the fiasco.
----------
according to Braq McQuaid Sigil will have their own customer service for petitions in game.
Comment Posted by: Simkine on May 17, 2006 07:34 AM
Loral, I hope all that worrying about the progression server doesn't keep you up at night.
What SOE is doing here is a lot more profitable to them than say making new player models - at least up front. And that's all corporate American thinks about these days. This server will definately bring players back. Whether it's a huge success or begins to wane after 6 months, SOE will have made money off it and several thousand players got to relive EQ as it used to be. End the hate.
Comment Posted by: Aethn on May 17, 2006 08:30 AM
As long as that Customer Service is not outsourced and based in India then it will be fine. Pretty sick of calling nearly any buisness today and getting some outsourced CS dept in India that simply reads a sctipt and tells you nothing to fix your issues.
Comment Posted by: Xaas on May 17, 2006 12:05 PM
So I went and read what you said about the "classic" server, and well I think "many" of your points being valid is a bit optimistic. If it was just a classic server, I would agree with most of the article, but its not, it’s a progressive server.
Corpse recovery, Transportation, and Low server population, are really the 3 points I saw that pertained to, and were valid points. Well boats aren’t coming back, so I really have much less of a problem with transportation, missing the boat by 10s and having to wait was so freaking annoying. Otherwise druids and wizards are your friend; they solo well and will be popular. Corpse recovery, I really have to say this isn’t going to be fun, but really it’s been in the game for a long, long time so I have a really hard time saying that something that has been in the game for 2 expansions is really something that big of a deal to lose. I think they suck, and I don’t like them but I don’t’ think it’s a make or brake server kind of thing. That will be a low server population, if no one plays its going to doom the server. Original EQ is hard, harder then a lot of people remember, but that isn’t a bad thing. Competition is going to be what drives this server, the push to be first, and the fact that it levels the playing field, and those people who want to not be so far behind the curve get a chance to do so.
Oh, and as for development, I assume you have read what I have and know that it really not hurting anyone, Maddoc is fixing old content, and most of the tools will be used on the regular live servers. I just wanted to touch on this, because it was one of the major points you made, that I don’t think really is turning out to be true.
Now as to why I think there doing it, I think its to get older players back who left the game, then pitch them a new expansion, pitch it to the older players who came back or even new ones who wanted to try EQ. I think the next expansion is going to go after WoW players, a new expansion basically a Kunark style expansion, with a story line, tasks, and MM all working together. If they do that, and its always possible, they might have a good shot a maybe making some new customer or at least getting some to return.
Comment Posted by: Loral on May 17, 2006 08:29 PM
"Loral, I hope all that worrying about the progression server doesn't keep you up at night."
I stay up nights worrying about how I am going to pay my new huge mortgage =(
Comment Posted by: Wolfkinder on May 17, 2006 08:52 PM
Hate to tell you, Xaas, but it looks like boats are coming back. They already have one up and running and think they can get them all up. They do mention that the travel time will be as low as 8 minute roundtrips and should be much more stable (as of my last reading of the dev's comments which I have to honestly admit was yesterday).
Old PoM is coming back too apparently, to be moved to all live servers.
--Wolfkinder
Comment Posted by: Dolalin on May 18, 2006 12:46 AM
Judging by what I've been hearing I would not be surprised to see SoE open up a few extra Progression Servers. This new one is going to be overloaded.
Judging from how DAoC's classic servers went, the populations are stable and a classic server currently holds the record as the strongest population server.
I have some faith that the original formula that put together EQ and launched a game with 250,000+ (is it more now?) unique subscribers in the "dark days" of MMORPG gaming will bring back a lot of old players and provide a place for new players to go.
Comment Posted by: Wiggles on May 18, 2006 07:38 AM
What's this? Negative comments about EQ? Blasphemous! Haven't you been henpecked by posters and learned your lesson? If you don't like something about EQ, you should stop playing, shred your discs and never return to an EQ related forum ever again because you're bringing everyone down. "Dev's aren't doing what I want them to do" Oh,noes! Maybe, just maybe, they have more than 1 dev, And if SOE wanted to fix things broke for years, they would have already (doors excluded). Dev time fixing bugs doesn't bring dollars in. It might take dollars out but that's less important believe it or not.
The Progression server is a great idea, their best idea is years; A unique alternate rules server. It won't be like 1999 all over again but it will enable people to play EQ through again something that hasn't been possible in years.
There are so many fun zones and quests throughout the history of this game that these days are ignored because of the current game dynamics. There are also some difficult paths ahead for the players who want to complete the progression.
Here's an interesting tidbit: There are people who acutally like a challenge! Yes, some people do get satisfaction out of completing their VP or VT key, of making level 60 in Kunark era zones, of racing for rare spawns, and having large raids to complete their epic 1.0.
Here's another tidbit: Not everyone going to the Progression server is gunning to be #1. There will certainly be enough of those, just like you would expect on any server. Then, there will be the majority who simply enjoy playing a game, free of features included recently. Everyone doesn't need to max themselves before an expansion is unlocked. Being level 45-50 during the Velious period is plenty fun and probably where I will be by that time.
The Vanguard annoucement is interesting. SOE's stake in this is a hosting provider and distributor of media. Sigil was going to either find someone to do this or pay a pretty hefty up front cost to do it themselves. I think it's a wise move to have a proven company handle this. They're going to have their hands full just getting this game out in playable/enjoyable format by the looks of it.
Comment Posted by: Teremar on May 18, 2006 10:58 AM
It's true that Vanguard is a threat to EQ (they're trying to appeal to the same kind of player) but Vanguard wasn't going to go away if SOE didn't publish it. Given that Vanguard is going to exist, it makes sense for SOE to profit from it. And every player who gets an All-Access pass to play Vanguard is someone who can still play EQ any time they choose, so again given that Vanguard is going to exist this is a good thing for EQ players, even those with no interest in Vanguard.
While the dev teams will remain separate, I hope the Vanguard devs pay close attention to the Progression server. After all, they're basically going back to Brad's original game. And I share Loral's concerns about that--Brad's a certifiable sadist. Remember buying ore in Freeport and molds in Rivervale? The Old Seb key NOT being soulbound, so if you wiped the first step in the CR was to get people new keys? I presume the Progression server won't be that bad, but still I think you're going to see a split between those who see an MMORPG as a game played for fun and those who see it as some sort of extreme sport, where the dominant philosophy is "No pain, no gain." We all had some pretty rosy glasses as we entered our first virtual world, but we're used to something very different now.
Of course Brad's sadism is a big part of Vanguard's appeal to some people. Not a lot of people, so Vanguard's likely to be a niche game. That may be why Microsoft wanted changes ("Why aren't you making us the next World of Warcraft?") but Brad's banking on his fans being very loyal. It could work. But if he's smart, he'll watch the Progression server closely and see which parts of his old vision alienate more people than they're worth. That way Vanguard's niche can be as large as possible.
I am quite confident the Progression server will be a success. Of course a lot of that is becuase I do think the devs made major mistakes, and of all the high-ends EQ has had over the years, Kunark's really was the best.
Comment Posted by: Wiggles on May 18, 2006 12:32 PM
I think a lot of the naysayers seem to dwell on the difficult/annoying aspects of the early game. Most of these issues have been addressed and won't be here (faulty boats, binding, soulbound keys, no chat channels, etc). This is pretty much the same eqgame.exe we have now with content blocked off.
And while we're all accustomed to how things are now (I was right in line with everyone else milking MM for 100's of AA's a day) I know I'm not the only one who appreciates the older (slower?) game and is willing to do it over in place of what is offered right now.
Comment Posted by: xsi on May 18, 2006 02:41 PM
I don't really care about the progression server, but I do agree that it's of limited value from a business perspective. It -may- lure some older EQ players back for a few months, but what EQ needs is an infusion of new players, and I don't see the progression server doing that.
I've played EQ since beta, and, while I am not a big fan of the current status quo, I don't think reverting to 1999-era features is going to recapture the magic.
Then again, I don't think Vanguard is going to do well at all either, purely because they seem to be developing a modern game with archaic rulesets.
Comment Posted by: Anthy on May 19, 2006 07:49 AM
The main problem I see with the progression server is the question of where it's main population base is going to come from. Most people who are currently playing EQ have guilds, frends, large webs of connections on their current servers. Even our characters are important to us. So while some will go there, the same types that always jump to a new server to try and be the first to max level, to try and form the next uberguild, etc...many that want to play there have too many friends and committments to go. Would I leave my character and today's EQ behind to play on the progression server? Yeah, I think I would. But I won't leave my friends and my guild behind.
That leaves new players, most of who are completely coddled by the new EQ and won't last 5 minutes in real EverQuest, and whatever old players are still clinging to EQ after the rest of their friends have moved elsewhere. And it leaves people that are willing to return to EQ for this server. That last segment is the wager that it seems SoE is making. If enough of those who no longer play hear about it, maybe they'll come back. But those of us with friends and guilds on our current servers are unlikely to be able to spend much time there.
Muse Anthy Himemiya,
Bard of Azure Shadows,
Herald of Veeshan,
Dreadmistress of Lanys T'Vyl.
-Do you honestly think that we believe ourselves evil? My friend, we seek only good. It's just that our definitions don't quite match.-
Ailanreanter
Comment Posted by: Simkine on May 19, 2006 09:08 AM
I agree this is more targetted at previous EQ players who they want to bring back more than current EQ players (the new expansion is probably more in tune with grabbing WoW deserters). Which is as it should be. They want new subscribers not a shift in their userbase. And that's why it's no shock to me to see current EQ players think it's such a sucky idea. To this end, they will really need to advertise it outside their fanbase.
And since it hasn't been repeated enough, this isn't 1999 EQ. This is a progression server. You're not stuck in Kunark/Velious forever (no matter how sweat that might be =p ). This is a chance to play the game through all the expansions and within a year or two be caught up with all the features offered.
For old timers and others interested, this is a great way to get back into EQ even if you're not actively trying to unlock the expansions yourself. I mean people buy Titanium with 10 expansions and play none of it because it's irrelavant in todays game. It just seems a waste. This way, you play through the entire EQ experience and get a feel for how things have changed over the years. And perhaps understand when people reminiscence about the "good old days" =p Well, we'll see about that.
Comment Posted by: BigDaddy on May 20, 2006 03:00 AM
I must be missing something. Nobody is "forced" to use most of the new content now. If you don't want your twink pl'd ...don't do it. If you don't like the ease of summoning your corpse...don't do it. If the thought is WOW WE ARE ALL EQUAL NOW!!! You don't think there will be super guild staking claims to the progession server the way they do now only there instead of dealing with a couple of them you will have to compete with super guilds from all the servers. In theory ---good idea, In reality ---- no change for me. The new server will be dominated by a couple of guilds that will be mostly alts from the founding guilds previous server.
Comment Posted by: Greif on May 20, 2006 03:08 AM
"This is a chance to play the game through all the expansions and within a year or two be caught up with all the features offered."
Which to me, makes this a dead-end development for EQ1. At some point, you will inevitably reach the "jump the shark" stage of the game for a large proportion of players (my guess will be PoP and GoD). At this stage, these people will either stop playing completely or just move back to their original home servers.
Now on the matter of getting new players into the game AND stealing people away from WOW (aka regaining marketshare). The answer is obvious to me and a lot of people.
1) A complete revamp player models/animation (we have zone revamps as an ongoing project) to the game to bring them up to 2006 standards. The Luclin models were rushed, incomplete (2HB animations anyone?) and UGLY. EQ1 will now require DX9c to play, lets have content that ACTUALLY MAKES USE of it.
2) A newby friendly expansion from level 1 to cap (whatever it may be). Said expansion should also COMPLETE with all previous expansions to date.
3) A significant sales and advertising push with numerous promotions and incentives to new players and continuing subscribers. We need to get the news of such a revamp publicized and out to all the potential new customers / subscribers and potential defectees from other games.
IMO, you have to have all three of the above elements in place for it to work. This is also why I think having Vanguard within SOE is bad for EQ1. By having Vanguard (and also EQ2) within SOE, there is less and less incentive for the bean counters within management to put in money for a huge update to revamp EQ1.
Comment Posted by: SabrexLanys on May 20, 2006 08:47 PM
I think the progression server is a great idea and one of the only ways to both get new people into the game and old people back. From my perspective I have an epic cleric 58 and enchanter 67 but left during the great exodus/merger. I returned briefly during the free period but found the only pick-up groups I could get were in BoT, content I had done to death. I am nostalgic for the old days but I'm not a diehard wanting boats back but rather fun content in which the majority of players could group effectively together. Content which values skill rather than uber equipment or rare spells.
A progression server in one way is a sugar coated player wipe solving the problem of incessant equipment, AA and mob mudflation driven by the commercial reality of pumping out expansions and level increases every 6 months. Even with 2 highish level characters I would rather start afresh with a cohort of people at around my level moving through content than struggling to find groups in content that is largely locked up or exclusively requiring raid quality gear.
EQ is a game of progression and fundamentally how does a 6 year old game allow new users to join and participate equally in the end without either artificial tricks (monster missions) to bypass most content or insanely high xp rewards on the way up.
The better solution to keep the game alive would be start the game afresh for new players on progression servers (ie force them there) and let the old server merge as populations drop. A bit like a forest regenerating. Old trees die and replaced by saplings.
Comment Posted by: Belgrath on May 21, 2006 01:42 PM
Sad part of the progression server is that there is gonna be a few uberguilds full of dudes with no lives who play nearly 24/7 or in shifts that reach lvl 20+ on the 1st day (seen it happen on other totally new servers) and hit lvl 50 within a week and pretty much have everything unlocked within a month... unless Sony puts artificial brakes on powerlevelers and simply not 'progress' the serverwhich will result in the usual screaming.
Bad mistake in setting 'racing goals' to guys who have 400-600+ days /played... and have nothing better to do then grind exp all day and night.
Comment Posted by: sabrexlanys on May 21, 2006 08:25 PM
Will it be a race? Yes probably 1 or 2 guilds will fight for pole position. Will it matter? Not one jot ss long as I'm in the cohort of committed gamers moving forward. That will give me plenty of people to group with in the great old places, crushbone, unrest, sola, guk, karnors, seb, chardock, howling stones...thats all I need. People wont be 20+ on the first day having to xp in the old world. If anything the racers are doing me a service opening Kunark before I out level some of the great spots there.
Comment Posted by: belgrath on May 22, 2006 03:39 AM
Those new no transfer servers did have guys lvl in old zones 20+ in 24 hours. Zones like Befallen 9-15, No Ro 15-19, Runnyeye (old) or upper guk 20-25, so ro chickens 25-34, cazic (old) or splitpaw (old) 30's, timourous deep aviaks, sol b and lower guk. Then seafuries and other giants for cash to build up tradeskills... Lack of melee gear will hurt for awhile but wont slow down a necro in places like lower guk or farming giants...
Comment Posted by: armarant on May 22, 2006 08:09 AM
belgrath wrote: Those new no transfer servers did have guys lvl in old zones 20+ in 24 hours.
----
there is going to be one vital difference between that server and progression in the first 24 hours.. there will be no pok. there will be no luclin.. there will be no expansions at all. if there are 20+ people in the first day it will be because someone leveled them up in shifts or someone stayed awake at the keyboard for that entire time. not because of some secret power they have.
Comment Posted by: Teremar on May 22, 2006 03:38 PM
Of course a few people are going to level up at crazy rates. That won't matter much. (Except for that uber LGuk gear for sale in the EC tunnel I suppose!) And I'm sure a few guilds will race to clear the content too. That's more of a concern.
As several people have said, the appeal of the progression server is the prospect of being able to find groups in the classic EQ zones that no one visits today. Hopefully SOE has identified the new zones that made those old favorites obsolete, and hopefully they'll keep track of where the bulk of the active progression server players are. Then they'll need to make sure that Luclin, for example, doesn't open up until most people have already leveled past Paludal Caverns by playing in the old zones which were the whole reason they came to the progression server.
The opening of PoP in particular will be a watershed event. First off it's much more similar to modern EQ than to the original flavor that is the progression server's appeal. More importantly it made the high ends of Kunark and Velious obsolete--content a lot of people really loved. On the other hand, I imagine hardcore raiders are looking forward to reliving the glory days of trying to get into Time.
It's a tough call, but I know I'd be rather ticked off if I had finally leveled up high enough to revisit Old Seb and found that everyone was in PoJ instead. Especially since that's pretty much what happened to me the first time around.
Comment Posted by: Pomaikai Po'okela on May 23, 2006 10:38 PM
Loral,
Could you please use your editorial power to get some real answers to SOE's breaking Federal contract law, vis-a-vis their actions and inactions concerning the 6th Anniversary pricing debacle? The playerbase needs all the help they can get at this time, and we'd love to have you in our corner. Did you get burned by this bullshit too? Just kind of curious...
Comment Posted by: Richard Hinson on May 24, 2006 05:23 AM
Pomaikai,
1) You have to ask yourself, what gain does Loral have in confronting SOE on any issue. I mean really confronting them? His/her celebrity status would drop to nill if SOE cut off communication and stopped the invites. Given that the pricing issue is but one of dozens if not a hundred plus major gaffs that SOE has done in the last few years, why would this one stand out?
2) You mention federal law. Have you personally contacted the federal prosecutor for your area? Have you even contacted the San Deigo District Attorney at 619-531-3507 which would have the most immediate juristiction over SOE's offices? Do you seriously think they have broken federal trade law?? Well have you personally contacted The Federal Trade Commission (or FTC) at https://rn.ftc.gov/pls/dod/wsolcq$.startup?Z_ORG_CODE=PU01 If not, why are you asking Loral to do what you haven't done?
SOE is a service provider. If you find that they have defrauded you, then it is up to you as an individual to make your case to those agencies that respond to fraud complaints. Further it is up to you to do the most basic and fundamental step, stop paying them more money.
If your unwilling to stop paying them and to take the required legal action yourself, then at least admit to yourself that your effectively a crack whore, and an addict, and your willing to prostitute your values and self esteem in order to get your "EQ" fix.
Comment Posted by: Loral on May 24, 2006 07:10 AM
I paid for an extra year on my account back in the 5th anniversary so I didn't pay for an extra year this time. I have heard a little bit about what happened but I will look into it more and find out what happened. I don't think I ever avoided an issue simply because I didn't want to rock the boat with SOE - why would I put new player models into an evil agenda if that were the case?
As for protecting my "celebrity status", give me a break.
Comment Posted by: Wolfkinder on May 24, 2006 08:13 AM
Make sure you watch out for those groupies, Loral:) Some of them might not be taking their medication. Everquest celebrity status seems fun until someone loses an eye:(
--Wolfkinder
Comment Posted by: sigh on May 24, 2006 10:44 AM
still nothing new, is castersrealm dead again ? someone rez it or something.
Comment Posted by: Pomaikai Po'okela on May 24, 2006 12:27 PM
I have contacted my State Attorney General's office, as well as approximately 8 different gaming and computer magazines. The press tends to get companies off their asses. Loral is a member of the press, and has quite a few inside contacts within SOE. It would make sense to avail ourselves of his contacts and bully pulpit.
I shall contact the San Diego DA at the number you gave. Thanks for that tip.
As to the relevance to the current topic, SOE will be handling the BILLING for SoH. Go read the thread about SOE's handling of the 6th Anniv. pricing. It's a long but enlightening read. It should make you rather uneasy about signing up for anything that SOE's billing department is involved with...
Comment Posted by: never mind on May 25, 2006 04:39 AM
I got burned by SOE on the 6th Anniversary RECURRING pricing. They closed my accounts in April w/o notification instead of honoring our agreement. Then they took away my EQforums posting rights because my accounts were closed. Two months after the issue was first raised and 20+ pages of EQforums posts on the subject and SOE still can't bring themselves to do the right thing. What a shame, I left the game.
Comment Posted by: ezez on May 25, 2006 09:44 PM
So long Everquest
I re-activated WoW, it's just a much better game. This is my nice little good-bye to SoE until they stop wasting time with this progression server, fix the anniversery billing, and make their game fun again.
The final account is closed. Peace!
Comment Posted by: Vamcill on May 26, 2006 05:47 PM
This is the only site where i have seen this many people bash the progression server. Now be honest here, the progression server is the most interesting thing to happen to EQ in a long time, I have never seen so many people excited about the game.
And yes the PS is bringing players back, you just have to read posts on the offical forums to see that many people are returning, people posting to say thank you SOE(yes THANK YOU) that they made the PS "My whole old guild has returned from WoW to take part"
A thank you to SOE....wow you dont see that everday, and that is why the PS is a worthy issue.
Comment Posted by: SabrexLanys on May 26, 2006 11:05 PM
Interestingly if you dont have an active EQ1 account you cant post of the progression threads. So those posting are either jaded existing players or inactive players still with an account. The activity on the thread is probably more a measure of the disaffection with the modern state of the game.
Comment Posted by: Nolrog on May 27, 2006 08:07 PM
>>As for SOE publishing Vanguard, I think its a bad decision by Sony. It is essentially funding a rival to its own two homegrown and successful products - EQ1 and EQ2. . . . . Vanguard isn't going to bring in 250K NEW subscribers. . . . its just going to steal them from EQ1 and EQ2 (and no, I can't see Vanguard stealing much from the WOW crowd).
The thing you fail to realize, though, is that with or without SOE, Vanguard is coming out. It's going to steal those players anyway. So it's better for SOE that they stay within the SOE 'stable of games' rather than leaving to play an NCSoft or Microsoft published Vanguard.
As for pulling from WoW, well, again, you fail to take into account the scale involved. WoW has some 6 million subscribers, EQ has 250 (EQ2 has what, 100K?) With such a large population to work from, a population that is largely maxed out with nothing left to do, it's a virtual guarantee that Vanguard will pull from WoW and they will pull far more from WoW than any other game, just because there's so many potential Vanguard subscribers.
Comment Posted by: Nolrog on May 27, 2006 08:13 PM
>>"Now on the matter of getting new players into the game AND stealing people away from WOW (aka regaining marketshare). The answer is obvious to me and a lot of people.
1) A complete revamp player models/animation (we have zone revamps as an ongoing project) to the game to bring them up to 2006 standards. The Luclin models were rushed, incomplete (2HB animations anyone?) and UGLY. EQ1 will now require DX9c to play, lets have content that ACTUALLY MAKES USE of it."
Read the last HoC chat. Loral asked this question (new PC models), and Rhagnell said they were looking into various ways to make it happen. As for the content that uses Dx 9.0c, have you seen the new zones? Check out Lavastorm, Nektulos and Freeport. Superbly done, and shows what EQ can look like.
"2) A newby friendly expansion from level 1 to cap (whatever it may be). Said expansion should also COMPLETE with all previous expansions to date."
Not sure about including all previous expansions, but besides that, you just described The Serpent's Spine.
Comment Posted by: xsi on May 28, 2006 02:13 AM
"Read the last HoC chat. Loral asked this question (new PC models), and Rhagnell said they were looking into various ways to make it happen/"
Read every transcript of chats for the last few years, (and, since you've had questions answered at most of them, you should know this already :P). EVERY time the question is posed, we're told "...the team wants to make it happen and is looking for ways to do so."
Until something actually shows up on the test server, I call bull.
Comment Posted by: Nolrog on May 28, 2006 09:07 AM
I found this more than the typical "it's something we'd like to do" reply (which always seemed like a polite no to me.) This time was a bit different. It struck me as if they really are trying to make it happen.
Here's the Q&A for those that didn't see it (and are too lazy to go find it themselves.)
Brannoc - *Loral* Is there any update on the release of new player models?
Raghnell - To be honest, no update right now.
Raghnell - We are working on some ideas in our "lab" to figure out a good, cost effetive way to do this.
Raghnell - We have new and good ideas that we are trying to put to the test but no real information right now.
Comment Posted by: Loral on May 29, 2006 06:55 PM
I just like to ping SOE to see where new player models stand. I asked about 18 questions that night and two got answered - that was one of them. It was one of my least interesting ones, though.
Comment Posted by: Richard Hinson on May 30, 2006 05:21 AM
Loral ~
So what where the other 16 questions that SOE chose not to answer?
Comment Posted by: Jyve on May 30, 2006 11:44 PM
I suspect the shrouds were a test of new character models to see how the engine held up adding new models using higher poly counts. In that respect, I think they've shown the engine doesn't collapse around our ears.
Looks like they're taking it slowly, cautiously, but considering what they do, would there be any other way todo it? We all know what the boards would be like if they dropped new models on us that had even a few minor noticeable problems until the next patch.
I think we've got a chance of new models.
Comment Posted by: Pants on May 31, 2006 03:04 AM
Speaking as a person who has been away from EQ for a year and half, I will not be returning for the Progression Server, or any expansion. The reason is because EQ is old. There are other MMOs out there that do it better, who have learned from SOE's mistakes. Better graphics, shound, quest system, trade skill system and most of all a better pacing to progression. EQ was once great because it stood out among only a few MMOs at the time, the only first person view MMO, something that could draw you into the game world more than looking at your character on a tile map. That's just not true anymore. Why try to relive the glory days? It will never be the same as the first time around.
I do think it will draw some players back but I doubt it'll hold their interest for long though. I honestly think SOE should stop focusing so much money and effort on EQ and instead focus most of it on EQ2, or other future projects.
As for Vanguard I wasn't much interested in playing it anyway because I really think the original EQ developers are held in much higher esteem than they deserve. Yes they did create something great that changes the face of PC gaming but people also tend to look back at old EQ (1999-2001) with rose colored glasses, remembering all the cool aspects but forgetting the bad. All the horrible time sinks, class balance issues, unfinished content, overcrowding in Lower Guk, but worst of all the developer's attitudes. Remember The Vision (tm)? The number one excuse to not fix outstanding issues old EQ had or to make improvements to the game and it was delivered with condescending attitude. The one good thing SOE did when they took over EQ, at least at first, was to be more open minded about changes. Unfortunately they have made way too many blunders over the years, ie: what happened this winter with the brilliant partial rollback. Sure right now SOE isn't going to run Vanguard and make decisions concerning the direction of the game, but that was true back with Verant too. Things change. I would not be surprised at all if SOE offers to buy out Vanguard from Sigil, offering a nice sum of money that Sigil will not refuse. I think I'll pass on repeating that history.
All I can say is that it is a good thing the MMO market is so crowded now. It gives people real choices in what to play. The competition is good and it's nice to see a new leader once in awhile.
Comment Posted by: Redcloud on May 31, 2006 10:35 AM
I dare hope that some day people will stop talking about Verant vs SOE and actually look up the whole history of EQ ownership and development.
And stop inventing things like that.
Please.
Comment Posted by: Simkine on May 31, 2006 12:38 PM
QFT. SISA,RedEye,989,Verant,SOE. Pretty much all the same people, just a shell game of companies.
Comment Posted by: Pants on May 31, 2006 02:55 PM
Actually maybe you should go look it up yourself. Rose colored glasses.
Comment Posted by: Armarant on June 1, 2006 07:08 AM
*rude quote from troll removed along with the original* - Loral
..
Horzek wrote:Progression server = ran out of new ideas lets recycle old content and try to relive yesterday
...
Progression server = Lets give the players what they have been asking for on the forums so they will shut up.
there.. fixed that for you.
Comment Posted by: EQFAN on June 7, 2006 08:18 AM
Any new articles anytime soon? What have been nice to have planned a guest writer or two during your absence.
Comment Posted by: Loral on June 8, 2006 05:51 PM
Yes it would have. I'm in the process of moving and buying a house so things got a little nuts. It's also been a slow news month. Sorry for the lack of updates =(
Comment Posted by: Viluin on June 11, 2006 09:37 AM
Woody still manages to do a new comic every day, even when he's doing something like moving. =P
Comment Posted by: Teremar on June 12, 2006 04:05 PM
Actually, he doesn't (always). There have been a few times when the comic has been on hiatus for a week or two for various reasons. Besides, I'm quite confident Mobhunter is not a money-maker like GUComics.
Comment Posted by: Tharkins on June 12, 2006 10:17 PM
Its not about the money or GU comics, but more the prinicple (customer service) of keeping your readers informed and serviced during a long stretch of absence. It would have been easy enough to line up a one or two guest writers to put an article or two together that engages the reader to think about the game in the non-traditional sense.
I'm more concerned that Loral no longer has his heart in it, and I can't blame him after all these years, everyone moves on and grows up. I just wish, if thats the case, pass the baton to someone else that wants to write for the Mobhunter readers and keeps the audience engaged and coming back for more. Its easy to write articles when SOE gives you the news but it takes real skill and know-how to keep your audience engaged when there is no real story out there.
Bottom line for me, this site is losing its customer base like many other sites, mainly due to lack of interest or changing interest of the wite owner/proprietor. Nothing wrong with that, just come out and say so. Either way, my visits to this site are numbered unless we get some new energy at the helm.
Comment Posted by: Teremar on June 13, 2006 02:09 PM
I kind of agree with you Tharkins, but I did laugh a bit when you mentioned "customer service." Don't you have to pay money to be a customer?
I don't even see any advertising (unless AdBlock is nailing it--gotta love AdBlock) so I presume no one's making any money off this site at all. Thus Loral's under no obligation to anyone to do anything. Yes, it's been on my mind to take Mobhunter off my lists of sites I visit regularly to see what's up in the MMORGP world too, but habits are hard to break. And in any case I'm not going to blame Loral. If readership at Mobhunter is down I think the first place to look for an explanation is EQ's subscription numbers.
Comment Posted by: bob on June 13, 2006 06:24 PM
I for one loved the difficulty level of EQ in the Kunark days, and long for it to come back.
You lvl 75, 200+ AA raid types only care about getting from one raid site to another to collect the next loot drop. Adventure and exploration don't have a lot of meaning to you it seems. (judging by how I see RP'ers gettting flamed as noobs on a regular basis, I think this is a fairly accurate assesment.
Your rush to the high levels and AAs and your impatience has made the game world feel a LOT smaller than it should. FOr you the login screen should be a list of you favorite raid zones, and you just click a menu entry and magically appear there. Just skip the pretense and go right to loot collecting.
The Progression Server is for those who arent out for instant gratification, its there for those who want to spend time playing the game, and exploring all there is to explore, rather than power-leveling to make sure you can gain entry to a raid guild.
I mean geesh, its pathetic how many of you raid types are unable to find your way from Neriak to Freeport on foot and its VERY pathetic how many of you have never been more than a few feet away from a wizard portal or a druid ring.
sorry..its EverQuest..NOT EverRaid or EverQuake
Think how short and boring Lord of the Ring's would have been if Frodo could simply get a port and then use a totem to port back to the shire.
Frodo: Hey gandalf, can ya gimme a lift to the big lava zone? I gotta do this ghey quest where i dump a ring in a hole.
Gandalf: Sure, lemme kite this mob first
Frodo runs up the hill, tosses the ring into the lava, Gandalf nukes Golem into fred chicken with manaburn, then TLs Frodo back to the SHire before he ports back to his camp in HoH
Frodo: hey gan, can ya P/L me later?
Adventure over in < 5 minutes
TRAVEL was half the ADVENTURE in LOTR, how can you throw that away in a MMO where Quests are allegedly the core of the game
I dont give a rip about raid content, the exploration and travel itself is what got me hooked on EQ.
Comment Posted by: Loral on June 13, 2006 07:00 PM
"Bottom line for me, this site is losing its customer base"
May I see your statistics please?
I actually pay money to keep Mobhunter going. I refuse to have any advertisement on the site (spam messages get through sometimes but I try to kill them as fast as I see them).
My heart is still into Everquest. I love this game. Unfortunately, the last expansion didn't give me much to do beyond the initial quests in Arcstone and Relic and little else has come out.
There was a big patch today and there were a lot of interesting things in that patch. I'll likely write about that soon.
Moving really does take up most of my time right now. A new job, a marrage coming up, and a new house all demand a lot of attention and right now, Everquest does not.
I will offer the same thing I offer to everyone who is not happy with the site: double your money back!
Again, I apologise for the lack of updates, it is just a bad time for keeping up on articles.
Comment Posted by: Tharkins on June 13, 2006 07:13 PM
Teremar - we're not paying customers in the sense of dollars but IMO we pay with our loyalty and our time as avid readers of the work here. Some of us have been with this site as frequent visitors for a long time, way before Loral took over the site, that should represent something.
When the stuff is good we spread the word to other fans/friends, but when its bad or not existent.....well, we don't or voice our opinions or visit the site as often or altogether.
Loral - I have no data to back up the statement of "losing customer base", just personal experince as a long time reader of this site (5+ years). It doesn't take a rocket scientist to notice that the traffic here is down and maybe, just maybe, it might be due to the content or lack thereof.
I'm not slighting you because you're moving, got married, brought a house, dog died, etc..... As a long time patron of this site I expected more care to the readers that still visit this site.
Again, take it as you will, I'm just one of the many "customers" for whom you write for.
Comment Posted by: Loral on June 13, 2006 09:42 PM
Just out of curiosity, I checked the webstats for the site. I get the same number of hits now (both raw hits and unique visits) than I did throughout all of April and May.
Your main point, that I've been slacking on articles, is just. The idea that I am losing customers is flawed on quite a few levels. Ironically enough, less readers would actually save me money =)
Well, since I obviously have enough time right now to sit and respond to posts - I must have enough time to write. So I'll go write about kicking moss snake nerfs.
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