News After the Fall of Gukta
by Loral on August 15, 2005
The war of Antonica seems to have ended and our green Froglok friends find themselves in a new tent-city in south Rathe Mountains. This was a bit of a surprise conclusion to the war. No one expected that SOE would change the troll city from back whence it came. I personally expected part of Freeport to be blocked off for Ykesha and his new men. No doubt these changes upset the Froggie allies as much as the Troll allies were angered to lose their city in the first place.
The Frog city has it's charm. It reminds me of Kelethin only lower to the ground (thank Tunare). One other interesting change, it appears that Frogloks can now start as necromancers, shadowknights, and rogues. That adds a bit more flavor to the race and will hopefully help fill out the low level game with some newer twinks.
The Depths of Darkhollow homepage has been built up with a pretty flash introduction, the Depths movie, a bunch of screenshots, and pre-order information. Depths pre-orders have brought up some interesting debates. For the first time in a while, the free gift for buying the retail makes it worth running through traffic to buy the box instead of clicking the "download now" button. The Clockwork Boar, a unique mount with the same power as a 10,000 plat horse or Drogmar mount, comes included with the boxed retail version of Depths. Those who either buy depths in the store or download it will receive a gargoyle monster shroud.
Many have asked why SOE would offer such a great incentive for a store-bought purchase when they are no doubt making a bigger profit on the download. The answer is: boxes on shelves sell EQ. We are horrified at how well advertisement works, but it works. If SOE can keep EQ on the shelves with new expansions, SOE gains more customers. Expansions keep Everquest alive and boxed sales help bring in new players.
For those of us who are happy either way, it won't be fun battling Tuesday night traffic to get to Best Buy and find out it hasn't hit the shelves yet. All of my friends will be running around me as wolves nipping at my boots and hooting while I stand there as my old boring self.
Of course, it will be worth it for that one time when I am stuck with a broken down smoking clockwork boar, telling my friend "I think it slipped a rod".
My friend Gemdiver over at Caster's Realm released some exclusive Depths of Darkhollow screenshots including a couple I took (that first double-wolf shot is one of mine). More and more people find the opportunity to join the Depths of Darkhollow beta. Keep a keen eye on the forums for chances to join in if testing is your cup of tea (*ignores the jeers of "but we're all betatesters in EQ you pompous egotistical loudmouth cleric!"*).
Our friend Zorillius recently announced that the Test server community would evolve. There are a few advantages to the test server such as double experience and full veteran rewards. SOE is going to add shorter reset times on all AAs, easier flagging requirements, and different boss timers. The most controversial change, however, comes from an ability for those on Test to invite players on the live servers to copy their main character over to test.
Test has always been an interesting community. They suffer through a lot so that we can have a more stable game (*once again ignores the cynical jeers*) and they don't mind telling you about it. They live through client bugs that keep them off game for days, encounters that are far from tuned, and all sorts of strange oddities. They do, however, get to see some of the latest changes sometimes months before we do.
Test is a community, however, and they act much like any of the other servers. To see hoards of copied players rushing in threatens the community they built. It will be interesting to see how this plays out, but I expect that SOE needs more players of all levels to help test EQ and this will solve that need.
Thanks to longtime Mobhunter supporter, Redcloud, we have a couple of interesting MMO articles to read. A World of Warcraft World takes an interesting and amusing look at how MMOGs will shape our world. I have a theory that 50 million players in the US will be playing some sort of massive online game, whether it be fantasy or football (or both), by 2012. Massive Online Games have changed our world and changed our lives. We like to say "it's just a game" but I have never played a game for five years straight that got me to write 3000 words a week in articles for three different sites. It's just A game but it's also not just a game at the same time.
Next Generation posted a reprint of The Laws of Online World Design by yukalale playing SOE big-head thinker, Raph Koster. These are some of my favorite couch-potato game designer rules that we should all keep in our head when we critique and ponder this favorite game world of ours.
It appears the Macintosh version of Everquest has risen from the dark depths. SOE is now offering a free download for the Macintosh version of Everquest including the base game, Kunark, Velious, Luclin, and Planes of Power. SOE has had trouble maintaining and supporting the Mac version of EQ in the past. A while ago we discovered that SOE only had one developer for the mac version and that developer had left. It will be interesting to see if this catches on, but they have a lot of work to do to catch up to the PC version.
Last week I wrote an update of an old article of mine, now titled Why I Play Everquest 2005. Every six months to a year I like to step back and really ask myself why I play this game. I think it is a valuable method to ensure that I continue to have fun and don't ever feel like I'm wasting my time. It's a bit pompous and perhaps even too high-brow for me to follow all the time, but hopefully its an entertaining read.
Thus ends this week's news roundup. Keep watching the forums for the latest happenings.
Loral Ciriclight
15 August 2005
loral@loralciriclight.com
Comment Posted by: Me on August 15, 2005 05:50 PM
Anything on the AA's?
Comment Posted by: Sunshadow on August 15, 2005 06:10 PM
I am disappointed that there is not a reasonable way to obtain the Clockwork Boar in those countries which no longer see retail sales of Everquest. In Australia the last retail box offered was Gates so we are excluded from this offer. It would be nice if in areas where there will be no retail offered, that the boar could be included in the digital download offer.
Comment Posted by: Sunshadow on August 15, 2005 06:15 PM
I am also interested in knowing how DoDH is going to handle powerleveling. What stops are there against high levels shrouding down to a low level then being powerleveled by their friends for easy XP? or is this the way designers invision getting players into the endgame faster.
Comment Posted by: on August 15, 2005 08:03 PM
You have developer confirmation that the mount will be the about the same speed as a 10k horse/drog?
Or are you guessing and spreading misinformation with no disclaimer?
Comment Posted by: Loral on August 15, 2005 10:24 PM
"I am disappointed that there is not a reasonable way to obtain the Clockwork Boar in those countries which no longer see retail sales of Everquest."
I agree. International marketing seems to be a painful issue in this whole topic. I'd much rather buy the online version myself but this is the first giveaway that will have me fighting traffic to buy the box.
"Or are you guessing and spreading misinformation with no disclaimer?"
You caught me. I am spreading evil and lies in an attempt to create chaos and misery among my readership.
I think it's a safe bet that it will be similar to the 10k horse.
Comment Posted by: Maitreya on August 15, 2005 11:21 PM
"I am also interested in knowing how DoDH is going to handle powerleveling. What stops are there against high levels shrouding down to a low level then being powerleveled by their friends for easy XP? or is this the way designers invision getting players into the endgame faster."
While I can't confirm anything, I'm sure you'll gain less xp per kill as a lower level monster than a higher level monster, due to the ease of killin' stuff at lower levels.
Comment Posted by: sunshadow on August 16, 2005 01:00 AM
It will be a difficult balance, to keep the experince worthwhile, while not opening it up to abuse. Regardless, I think PC is going to become a crowded place again, due to the ease of mobs and the existing XP bonus.
Comment Posted by: Redcloud on August 16, 2005 05:51 AM
OMG I ended up in a Loral's editorial as supporter, where the world has gone? ;)
I trust players' ingenuity to make the whole shroud process similar to creator's bard solo balance nightmare (some classes still solo DoN instances anyway). I just hope SoE will be fast enough to react and make it fun for all and not just insanely easy for some and not worth it for others. Be it class or gearwise.
Comment Posted by: Loral on August 16, 2005 07:34 AM
I thought you'd like that, Redcloud =)
The Spririt Shrouds are intended to help higher level players switch to a low level to hunt with lower level friends. It is unlikely that any experience gained as a monster will compare to the experience you can get at your actual level.
Players finding a loophole and figuring out a way to use spirit shrouds to earn even more experience faster and easier than normal hunting could certainly happen but I think it is more likely that powergamers will throw shards aside as worthless when they realize how little experience they will get. None of this is from the actual beta, by the way. I haven't had a chance to hunt with a shroud yet. It's just speculation.
Comment Posted by: Maitreya on August 16, 2005 10:40 AM
There is no doubt in mind that xp will be slower with lower level monsters. However, you don't shroud to get xp. The many other benefits of being a lower level monster (grouping with newbie friends, revisiting dungeons you missed, gaining xp while farming tradeskill components, factions, etc.) far outweigh the slower xp in my mind.
Comment Posted by: Decimous on August 16, 2005 12:02 PM
I wonder how shrouds would work with the TLC on FV...
Comment Posted by: Hemdell on August 16, 2005 12:12 PM
Well, if the shrouding doesn't give give good xp then I wont do it. Oh ya, play with your friends. I'll just power em up and fight where the xp is good. To me it won't make sense to shroud to grp and lose xp, gear, spells !!
Comment Posted by: Ogulbuk on August 16, 2005 12:45 PM
If they ever want to capitalize on the macintosh market as WoW did, first thing they have to do is dump the Mac version of EQ.
Yes, you read right, to succeed on the mac market you have to dump the mac version.
This is exactly what they should do: port EQ1 to use OpenGL instead of DirectX.
Then port the client to Mac, keeping conectivity to the same servers.
Integrate the curent EQMac server into the EQ server list.
Now, the issue here is if SOE thinks it is worth it doing this. In my opinion, though, its not.
Why?
I recently tried out the EQLive again, after 2 long years of not playing it. What i saw in front of my eyes was an obsolete and aweful looking world. Altough some new zones look nice, old ones look aweful.
Character models, ironicaly, I found were ok and I dont feel they need to remake them, but I do feel they NEED to remake the animations ASAP.
Replacing trees and other enviromental objects for higher quality ones in older zones is also nesesary.
It wont be until this change that entirely new players will really flood into the game. Right now there are new players, yea, but for every 10 that try the game i bet 9 cancel on their first week.
EQ now is like the old Pac Man game. Old school people will love it, and play nostalgicaly, but few, and i mean VERY few new players will accept it because it just looks outdated.
Now, turning back to the Mac Version, I doubt that EQ1 can compete against on a market where there is World of Warcraft that looks so smooth with nice clean animations.
Comment Posted by: Loral on August 16, 2005 02:17 PM
This article:
http://plaguelands.com/?page_id=172
goes hand-in-hand with the article Redcloud posted:
http://www.pointlesswasteoftime.com/games/wowworld.html
Specifically with these things you will see in your lifetime:
3. Someone will go to jail for stealing a Bonebiter.
4. You'll meet someone who plays an MMORPG for a living.
Here are a few interesting quotes from the article about EQ2 duping - by the way, this happened nearly a year ago.
The article I linked first, EQ2: The Dog Days of Duping, is amazing not because it is about duping in-game but because it shows you how this begins to effect our real world. Here's a guy who found a glitch and made tens of thousands of dollars on it. Here are some great quotes:
"Suddenly it started to feel alot like Goodfellas. You know, that scene where they rob the airport, then all the mafia members are told to lay low and not spend any money. The one guy shows up with a fur coat and a cadillac and Deniro goes ape shit crazy. Well, we bought horses. Not just any horses, we bought the most expensive ones available. Not only that, but we bought sweet houses, upgraded our spells, bought the best gear we could equip. We started buying all the collection quest items and just finishing them for fun. We bought all the illusion eyes, all the best furniture, hell, I even bought stuff and then just destroyed it. I had a crazy idea that the more I spread the money around, the less chance I would get banned."
"I checked the prices on PA, they were rediculous. 300 for a platinum. We were pulling platinum out of thin air. We set up some Player auctions and started selling. The first day of sales we made five hundred dollars and I felt that was plenty to cover the emotional damages I might incur if I were to lose my EQ2 character. Little did I know this was pennies compared to what we’d become."
"The auctioning wasn't working out so well either. We got hit by about 5 or 6 scammers who took us for a total of about $5,000 worth of platinum pieces. Of course, it didn't get us too hot and bothered, but just wasn’t worth the hassle."
"That's when the money started pouring in. Rediculous money. Money that made me so scared I went and consulted with a lawyer and an accountant. Needless to say, neither of them had a clue as to what the hell we were talking about. Try telling your accountant you’re making money by selling pieces of gold in a video game. You’ll get a good 20 seconds of them just straring at you and blinking."
"One minor snag. [After the last patch] dogs are "No Destroy," Dogs also can't be sold to the vendor. So…what the hell do you do with your dogs? Well, I decided to get revenge. I went back to all the servers that people had friends listed me and attempted to buy my dogs or blackmail me, and I put the dogs up for sale for 3 gold. 35 at a time, then went afk. Sure enough, the same people who had gotten our dogs before, were buying them as fast as they could. I can only imagine the look on their face as they went and tried to sell the dog to a vendor, realizing they had been tricked into buying my non destroyable evidence. Hell, it's like if O.J. ebayed a bloody knife."
"This is where the story ends. The exact total of what I profited is not important. Just know it’s more than some people make in a year...hell..maybe 3 years, and it was enough to take my girlfriend and entire family on a vacation to Paris."
Comment Posted by: Cognac on August 16, 2005 08:36 PM
quote "I am also interested in knowing how DoDH is going to handle powerleveling."
Some of the caster classes where most powerfull at particular levels. Mages are killing machines at 44 and 51. Can solo very easy for good xp. Better yet a Necro at 36 soloing Geo's in CC gets a blue per kill. I'm sure each class would have an optimum level and location.
This would be a Godsend for solo players who are reaching the more difficult higher levels. Slower or not, even safer is good. It's an option anyway....
Comment Posted by: on August 17, 2005 11:45 AM
I'd not be amazed to see a max xp per kill to avoid exploit of easy fixed level soloing.
Comment Posted by: Redcloud on August 17, 2005 06:05 PM
Or simply make your alt. Pick a superior solo class for the monster. Give xp to said alt. Level entirely the alt without ever playing it thanks to the superior solo monster skills. Would that work?
Comment Posted by: sunshadow on August 17, 2005 06:30 PM
Does shrouding affect faction? For example if my DE Necro shrouds into a Pixie will I be unmolested as I run around Gfay.
Will Shrouds be easy to obtain? Will they be portable(via potion or clicky item), or will they only be obtainable in fixed locations?
Will they last indefinately or only a fixed duration (perhaps an hour). If indefinately will they remain if you log out (or LD)?
What I want to know is how easy will they be for someone like me who gets half an hour a day(if I'm lucky)to log on, shroud up, hit double xp and solo for half an hour. If it takes me 20 min runing all over the place to get the shroud in the first place then it has no use for me. I kinda would like to know these things up front before I buy.
Comment Posted by: on August 17, 2005 06:34 PM
Agree 100% with the above poster.
They not only need alot of new graphics, I think they need an entire new engine... Logging in my mage from 2 years ago, and killing some stuff in Guk, my P4 3.2g comp was running at a snails pace... this shouldnt happen, not even on a comp half as strong as mine.
Comment Posted by: Loral on August 17, 2005 11:26 PM
Players will be able to get shrouds in the Plane of Knowledge. Shrouds are persistant so they will last until you specifically get rid of them. They will last through log in and log out. You will not have a portable means to switch in or out of a shroud (althought I think a polymorph class would be very cool).
However, I don't know that shrouds will be powerful enough at their level to make them able to solo with any amount of reasonable experience gain. Shrouds aren't designed for soloing, they're a feature to help people hunt with mixed-leveled friends.
All of this information came from the fan faire.
Comment Posted by: Cognac on August 18, 2005 01:14 AM
Ha ha... OK perhaps our expectations far exceed the reality of the implementation. If Loral is correct and it's not viable to shrowd to a lower level to get slow easy xp. Then it's probably not going to be used by anyone after the first week.
Oh, but that'd be just sad. If it had never happened before, I'd never believe it was possible.
Comment Posted by: Sunshadow on August 18, 2005 02:09 AM
Loral, thanks for the info. If they are persistant then they are good enough to use. I imagine while some may not be able to solo, others will to an extent. This persistance will allow me to gather tradeskill components at an appropriate level while still getting XP. If a guildie wants to join me then they are welcome, but for now on my "half hour" days just logging in an killing a few mobs then logging off is good enough. At weekends when time is less of a constraint then I can be more flexable with my usage.
Comment Posted by: on August 18, 2005 04:14 AM
sounding worse and worse as time goes on!
Comment Posted by: Glormane on August 18, 2005 05:01 AM
Less than a month to go and not a sniff of what the aa's are going to be. Or have I missed it?
Comment Posted by: Conthen on August 18, 2005 07:57 AM
Spirit shrouding XP is such a non-issue. It's more akin to a jester then anything.. kind of a "look, I'm a !"
Aside from that, I seriously like how they're set up.
Comment Posted by: Loral on August 18, 2005 08:08 AM
Shrouds were never advertised as or intended to be a tool to gain better experience than you can already earn. Where did people come up with that idea? I am seeing two trends with these comments:
1. Shrouds will suck because people will figure out ways to get too much experience with them.
2. Shouds will suck because people won't get enough experience with them.
Have we forgotten about "fun"? What about being able to try out other class styles at other levels? What about being able to hunt with your friends regardless of level? What about being able to try all those lower level missions and still find a challenge?
If the only important thing in your time in Norrath is how much experience you gain per hour, you may think about reevaluating why you play.
However, we all know that quantitative rewards are the ones on which players mostly fixate (even if they aren't the most important factors). The best thing we can do right now to make sure that the experience gain is at least somewhat useful with shrouds and monster missions is to join the beta, try them out, and send our feedback. Preemptive complaining won't solve the problem.
Comment Posted by: Loral on August 18, 2005 08:17 AM
Glormane, I've heard nothing yet on the powers of new AAs and new spells.
One other factor on the discussion of Shrouds and Monster Missions; these aren't the only features of the new expansion. These are the features that everyone will receive regardless of level but for the powergamers there is still a lot that meets the criterial for a regular expansion:
- About half a dozen new overland zones.
- Dozens of new instanced zones used for missions.
- A more progressive mission progression track.
- Lots of big high-end raids including raid content for those beyond Anguish.
- Lots of challenging level 70 hunting areas.
I spend a lot of time focused on shrouds and monster missions because I think they are the main features that stand out from the rest of the game and the other games on the market, but that is far from the total of what we get for our $30.
Comment Posted by: Anon on August 18, 2005 11:44 AM
Has anyone actually confirmed that you GET experience while shrouded?
Comment Posted by: Utziel on August 18, 2005 02:08 PM
I'm not lvl 70 with 1200 AA who doesn't care about xp. Have fun grouping with friends Shrouded doesn't sound fun to me. Grouping with friends is NOT the only fun in the game and just becuase you are with your friends doesn't mean its going to be fun. I make an Alt to play with friends lower lvl toons. Gameplay is a big part of that and if I dont have my gear or spells and get crap in its place how is that fun. I could solo the content at the lower lvls. I don't see the fun in having trouble with bear cub in EF cause I have crap gear and weapons AND spells.
Try out another class?? AHHH make an Alt and play any class ya want. Or you can go to test server and go right to lvl 25 and play till you are sick of the class.
What is the "still a lot that meets the criterial for a regular expansion:" for all those people who are not leveled out ??? Right, new zones and play as a monster. WOOT. the rest is for the Uber Raider. Wow Thanks, sounds great!
Comment Posted by: Loral on August 18, 2005 02:25 PM
If your primary interest is gaining experience to gain levels, I have confidence that you will find the quickest path to do so and soon be high enough level to use all of that high level content. If your primary interest isn't earning experience but having a good time, the shrouds sound like a good idea.
I'm not exactly sure what you're asking for. If it's an expansion with a lot of mid-level heavy experience content, it isn't likely we will see that. I heard that the vast majority of spawned LDON and DON missions were at the highest levels, 65 to 70, even though DON scaled back down to 50 and LDON scaled back to 20. People who aren't high level will either skip an entire expansion or flock to one zone because it seems to offer the best experience for the time spent there. See Paludal for example.
I have no doubt that the shrouds will be of little interest to some players. Uberfolk won't like them because they lose all of the great power they built up over the years. High-yield mid-levelers will be more interested in powerleveling their way to 70 instead of trying out new content with shrouds or monster missions.
I am of the belief that the only way to keep the game truely fresh is to think about new playstyles as well as new content. Shrouds and Monster Missions, along with LDON adventures, the task system (I know, it sort of failed), and DON Missions show how new playstyles can become quite popular. Even if they don't always work, its better than not trying.
Unfortunatly there is a sliver of players who would be happier if they could hit a grey box with a stick that rewarded 100.15% experience more than the last gray box.
"Has anyone actually confirmed that you GET experience while shrouded?"
Yes. The devs told me at the fan faire that you earn experience while shrouded. The difference between your primary level and the level you shroud down to will determine the amount. The closer to your primary level you are, the closer to normal experience you will get.
Comment Posted by: Redhenna on August 18, 2005 04:53 PM
This discussion in a nutshell represents very well my concerns for the new expansion. I have high hopes(as I do before every expansion), but some definate worries.
First is the fixation on shrouds and intelligent items. Both seem like kinda cool ideas, but they do not an expansion make. Other than these two items(and the clockwork boar...which is very cool), there is really very little mention at all of the meat and potatoes of the expansion.
"- About half a dozen new overland zones.
- Dozens of new instanced zones used for missions."
This sounds as if it will be roughtly DoN sized in terms of content, and DoN was horribly disapointing in that regard. 6 zones is not an expansion, it is an exptension, like LoY was.
"- A more progressive mission progression track."
This is my big hope for DoDH, a good set of single group progression missions, ala GoD's trials, would be a shot in the arm that EQ needs badly to my mind. If tho these tend to be more like DoN missions, then boredom is going to hit hard and fast.
"- Lots of big high-end raids including raid content for those beyond Anguish."
As a raider, this sounds good, but if I recall correctly, similar was said about DoN, and DoN failed to produce much raid content at all.
"- Lots of challenging level 70 hunting areas."
Challenging to whom? To non raiders, or to raiders? If raiders, what level of raider? Neither OoW nor DoN offered anything in the way of challenging single group hunting environments for high end raiders.
I am hoping for the best with DoDH, but I have a lot of worries, and a whole lot of unanswered questions.
Comment Posted by: xsi on August 18, 2005 05:02 PM
After some thought, I honestly don't find the spirit shrouds intriguing at all. About the only thing I can see using them for is helping to level some of our more odd-ball classes who don't necessarily fit into a trio (my wife and I trio) on their own... these classes can find a shroud that gives them more useful abilities perhaps.
I am of two minds about the idea in general. I think that it will either:
(a) go almost entirely unused after the first month, except for the handful of people who do want to use it to xp with friends rather than just making an alt and being able to actually develop that alt...
(b) be relatively popular, with an end result of decreased immersion (your tenuous connection with your character, such as (s)he is will lessen as you get more used to the idea of them just being a shroud repository), and INCREASED focus on xp, since a big chunk of EQ: item acquisition will be rendered moot. (Since you cannot use your items anyway while shrouded)
Neither option sounds particularly appealing to me.
Oh, and the task system introduced in OoW was a COMPLETE failure.
The monster missions, and intelligent weapons sound more interesting to me. If the rest of the content remains largely open only to level 70 players with substantial AAs though, I won't bother buying the expansion. The fact that DoN story progression requires being 68+ pretty much killed the excitement of that expansion for me. (I can be ally with the faction, but they are going to still give me the same old crap missions unless I am level 68-70? Whatever....)
Comment Posted by: Maitreya on August 18, 2005 05:57 PM
The spirit shroud sounds like the best feature in EQ yet. Aside from the cool novelty value of being a monster you can:
- Get xp on your main while grouping with newbie friends.
- Get xp and a challenge while exploring dungeons you "missed" on your way to the high levels.
- Get xp while farming creatures that would otherwise be "greenies" for tradeskills, faction, quests pieces or whatever.
- Just try out a different type of character for a while if you're bored with your main.
- Fill a slot in a group if you're missing an important role. If your group is DPS, DPS, crowd control, crowd control, tank, tank, just have one person shroud into a healer and you're set.
I hope I'm not getting my hopes up, but I'm fairly sure the majority of players will be happy with what they find when the servers go up on the 13th.
Comment Posted by: Horzek on August 19, 2005 05:56 AM
They should call the Spirit Shroud the Shit Shroud instead. No way I'm laying out cash for another lame expansion.
Comment Posted by: Redcloud on August 19, 2005 08:14 AM
I split DoD in 3 aspects: newbie, non raider, raider.
Shroud is supposed to attract newbies. It may be so or revitalize older content by playing with another toon. Sounds good. Actually I look forward to it.
Monster mission: I truely count on this one for true unadulterated non-pampered fun.
xp content: I expect it to be underchallenging for raiders as expecting more than 100-150hp per slot and qvic+ weapons for the majority is no go. I can only hope they will be equivalents of mpg trials or ldon hard vs ldon normal difficulty single group content (crossing fingers).
raid content: I can only hope they figure out a way to keep us busy but I fear it's going to be very very hard to do so. Not much hope in there.
Comment Posted by: Conthen on August 19, 2005 08:54 AM
In all honesty, I'd buy DoDH for monster missions alone. It's such a unique concept, and fairly radical departure from the normal EQ experience.
Spirit shrouding is, honestly, the best idea I think SoE could have come up with to allow experienced players to group with lower levels, without having to start a new character, or PL the new person. How many times have you introduced someone to EQ, and created a brand new character, so that you can play together? Shrouding is simply a unique take on that.
Comment Posted by: Blakyce on August 19, 2005 09:04 PM
I really like the sound of this expansion. The spirit shroud idea is an excellent concept and if it is half as good as it sounds it will be well worth the cost of the expansion. To the gentleman who called it the *expletive shroud*, good riddance you won't be missed, and please take your negative crap elsewhere.
I miss the huge expansions like Kunark, Velious and POP, but I have been quite pleased by the last 2 expansions and this one sounds like it should be three good ones in a row.
Comment Posted by: Fireheart on August 19, 2005 10:47 PM
I'd like to address another issue:
The 'new' Gukta may be quaint, but it's really lousy. First of all, there are all of these 'swamp' creatures (needed for Gukta quests) roaming around in dry, hilly country. No way are the frogs going to be happy in a place with No Water - regardless of the proximity of Lake Rathe.
The Developers should just quit being Lazy and build a new city-zone for the Frogs, like they should have done in the first place!
Has anyone plotted the locations of the PoK port-books on a map of Norrath? Perhaps having 3 city-zones right next door to each other is a bit excessive? With a 4th book just another zone away in the Arena? And they're all clustered at the southern end of the continent.
I think that's bad design - It leaves a vast wasteland stretching from Rivervale to Qeynos. There is not even a Wayfarer's Camp in the Karanas... Why not? From the spine of the world, in Highpass, to the west coast of Qeynos, there is nothing... Seems like a perfect place for another LDoN instance.
I'll leave aside the displacement of the poor Hill Giants and how, despite having a larger valley to roam, there are less than half as many spawning... Yes, I counted.
So, what do I suggest? A new swamp-city zone, similar to Kelethin/G-Faydark, but Low and Wet, with lots of half-sunken walls... Borrow a chunk of Swamp of No Hope, perhaps. It could be located/dicovered south of Rathe Mountains, through a tunnel from where the Guktans are now. Alternatively, it could be located west of South Karana... Or along the Beach, south of South Ro... or south of Lake Rathe.
I also suggest a Wayfarer's Camp and LDoN instance, based in the Karanas. I have no idea what the 'theme' should be.
Be Well!
Fireheart
Comment Posted by: Conthen on August 20, 2005 12:00 AM
Nobody ever said that the frogs will be in Rathe mountains permanently. There is after all, a on-going storyline here, somewhere...
I would guess that after DoDh goes live, the storyline will resume, and in 6 months to a year, the frogs might have a new home.
As far as no convenient transport to the karanas, ask your local wizard or druid.
Comment Posted by: Armarant on August 21, 2005 05:27 PM
Conthen wrote:
Nobody ever said that the frogs will be in Rathe mountains permanently.
...
I am sortof hopeing that isnt their permanent zone myself. since Absor hinted that the frogloks would move somewhere less rocky and the last I checked mountains where made of rocks :
Comment Posted by: JustSomeGuy on August 21, 2005 07:25 PM
Overview of adj pompous
The adj pompous has 1 sense (first 1 from tagged texts)
1. (2) grandiloquent, overblown, pompous, pontifical, portentous -- (puffed up with vanity; "a grandiloquent and boastful manner"; "overblown oratory"; "a pompous speech"; "pseudo-scientific gobbledygook and pontifical hooey"- Newsweek)
Comment Posted by: Jyve on August 22, 2005 04:15 AM
Shrouding up? Sounds great to me.
Ever hit a particular sweet spot for xp that you outgrew? Not a bad place for xp, but everything turned green? There was a better spot later, but a dead spot of xp? Then Shroud up 5 levels below you and get a bit more use out of that spot.
Already mentioned on eqforums, but shrouding down to 50 will let you hit the old Dragon raids again. Not a bad thing.
Each of the shrouds will have different abilities, so there's bound to be something to keep most people happy.
Short of slowers/healers/tanks/nukers on a particular day's raiding and it's made a target unreachable? Chuck couple of Shrouds in the raid to balance things out.
These are NOT main characters though, just another progression of something todo, get shrouded up and have fun in wierd places.
LDON's might have a fair bit of use, as everyone shrouds down to 23-35, gets buffed to bits and clears ldon's to finish of adventure aug.
Just something different. Give it a chance people!
Comment Posted by: Maitreya on August 22, 2005 02:14 PM
I bet Vox and Naggy are going to be perma-dead for a couple of months after DoD comes out.
Comment Posted by: Jandor on August 23, 2005 07:40 AM
Like to see them implement a system of reward for spells / disciplines that is achieved by acumulating points, shards, or whatever based on the amount of the reward vs the difficulty of the npc you either solo or average group level kills. This would greatly reduce all their flawed methods in the past as recieving multiple copies of same spell for rune turn in for POP and The infamous Random or Alpha roll where you spend 4 months at a time lossing rolls to someones alt or box in the same camp as you.
The reward of whatever they could decide on would be exchangeable for spells / disciplines of any level. Different level spells / disciplines would cost more incrementaly at higher levels to balance out with the reward VS risk theme of the game. The whole basis of this thought is for players that do the time in game to get their spells and not lose them to some chessy POP random spell return or losing them to others alts or boxing when you probably spent 5 times as long in that camp.
They could apply this same principle to the new expansion with the shrouds and players would have a LOT more incentive to shroud as they could aquire a reward to be accumulated for their higher level spells / disciplines.
Comment Posted by: Redcloud on August 24, 2005 10:24 AM
Fact of the matter: I don't see exactly what is the selling point of an intelligent item over a normal one.
Comment Posted by: Bunion on August 24, 2005 04:08 PM
One thing I never understood is why they just didn't put the frogloks in the Swamp of No Hope to begin with. There is already a froglock city there that serves no real purpose anyways and butts up close enough to other lower level zones so there would be plenty of content for lower level characters.
Comment Posted by: Sunshadow on August 24, 2005 06:30 PM
They couldn't put it in Swamp of No Hope because that zone is not part of the original Everquest or the LoY expansion which introduced Frogloks as a playable character. Someone buying only those 2 items needed to be able to play a froglok hence the limitation. If Sony opened up Kunark to being free and everyone had access to it by default, then they could move them there. However that probably ain't going to happen. They probably see it as more cost effective to tak on a new zone some where. Like a zone connecting south Karana with Oasis.
Comment Posted by: Horzek on August 24, 2005 08:10 PM
I'd recommend that SOE include a pass for a free month of WoW with every DoDH retail expansion package. That would reward the retailers and at the same time accelerate the death of this tired old game.
** Note by Loral**
This is the second generic antagonistic pointless post you have had on this article. There won't be a third.
Also, just in case people get the wrong idea - this Horzek is not the Horzek we know in-game.
If you have something constructive to say or specific issues to bring up, bring them up. If you just want to cause trouble, cause it somewhere else.
- Loral
Comment Posted by: Sunshadow on August 24, 2005 09:20 PM
** Loral note: Please keep personal attacks out of comments ** [Horzek] has triggered an interesting thought. As this expansion is not going retail in most countries and I imagine future expansions will be the same. However the EQ2 expansion will be retail in a lot of places.
Why not bundle them together in one box, with 1 activation code so you can either activate the EQ or EQ2 expansion for those counties which will not normally see retail.
Comment Posted by: Maitreya on August 25, 2005 01:42 AM
Moving the Guktans to Swamp of No Hope doesn't make a lot of sense. Why would they go all the way to another continent to take a city from a bunch of other frogloks who've never bothered them when there are plenty of suitable locations in Antonica?
Comment Posted by: Redcloud on August 25, 2005 04:18 AM
People called it dead and old when POP came out... Funny. If it's dead and old why would someone bother to post on a fan site about it, years laters?
That gives quite some credit to the imprint from that game on naysayers P)
Actually they should give one month free on WoW. People would stop talk about it, play it and if they, as I, can't put up with the lack of challenge they'd find EQ quite entertaining by comparison.
Comment Posted by: Tuppet on August 25, 2005 09:54 AM
>>Fact of the matter: I don't see exactly what is the selling point of an intelligent item over a normal one.
yet another form of progression? let's see, you have:
1. level
2. gear
3. aa
a. normal
b. leader, group
c. leader, raid
4. augmentations?
a. ldon (Adventurer's Stone)
b. god (Breakdown in Communication)
5. weapons
a. DoDH (weapons)
forces you to play the game, to progress in all forms.
- it's bad enough that there are some weapons that are superior to the epics (1.5 at least; i'm not close to comparing any 2.0's vs say anguish drops). so now I have to choose between my hard-earned epic versus an intelligent weapon versus other drops (where they have nice focus effects or abilities)? why the focus on primary/secondary?!!! too many items fighting over the same slot, primary.
Comment Posted by: Tuppet on August 25, 2005 09:57 AM
oops - to continue this idea:
>>forces you to play the game, to progress in all forms.
which basically means, since you want to progress - please continue to pay ($) to keep your account active please!
Comment Posted by: Redcloud on August 25, 2005 11:11 AM
hmmm no you missed my point.
Progression is the name of the game and the end stats on DoD gear will hopefuly compel to upgrade but the PROCESS of maxing the stats will be zapped at high speed if at all possible considering the playerbase out there.
If all it takes is killing mobs, it's moot. Not the gear but the process of maxing it. Unless I'm missing something about that feature which is why I ask the question in the first place.
Comment Posted by: on August 25, 2005 10:55 PM
Well, there are a number of ways to potentially take the evolving items...
If they are solely based off of killing things, the type of thing could matter... (ie. x of y will get you boosts in this stat, while a of b will get you that...). Kill 100 of their illithid look-a-like, and your item gets soem sort of benefit against the creature... either in helping you defend against their special attacks, or whatever.
The bonuses could even be competitive... ie. your weapon's stats and effects are based on whatever mob type you have killed the most of with it.
It's also important to note that they do not have to be weapons... it's entirely possible you'll end up with intelligent and/or evolving items for the other slots instead.
Finally, the items could be like the LDoN adventurer stone or PoP charm, where it's progression that evolves them, not kills.
/shrug, a lot of possibilities. I'm not sure if any of it will be FUN in practice, but we'll see.
Comment Posted by: Bob on August 26, 2005 02:44 PM
Test should have NEVER been allowed to develop a community of its own. So many bugs have missed and made it on the live servers because of the fact the TC players are like the rest of us concerned with playing and not with actual testing.
What Id like to see is something like they do with SWG, and clone some of the live servers and make them into Test servers so they can get a better idea of the impact of changes.
Comment Posted by: Loral on August 26, 2005 05:23 PM
From Redcloud:
"Actually they should give one month free on WoW. People would stop talk about it, play it and if they, as I, can't put up with the lack of challenge they'd find EQ quite entertaining by comparison."
I agree. I have an active WoW subscription going right now and if you have the means in both money and time, it is always worth trying out newer games. I know a lot of the EQ and EQ2 folks play WoW and it makes all our games better. Both my girlfriend and my mom, both avid EQ players, now play a lot of WoW. It's a great game although quick leveling and no word on high-end expansion seems to hurt its possible longevity. In any case, its always worth trying out other games, you never know what you will find.
As for intelligent items, some of it has to do with flavor and environment. Having a weapon chatting with you seems fun to me - I have this in my fan fiction so it will be nice to have it in game. The other part is progression, now you can watch your items level as you do. It may not be something that ultra-high-end raiders might be interested in but we will have to see how they are implemented.
Comment Posted by: Horzek on August 29, 2005 04:04 PM
I guess being copied is a form of flattery although I have not felt so flattered lately.
A few weeks ago Loral gave me some advice and I liked his ideas and went forward with them. In the past two months I actively sought out a raiding guild and have been with them every possible raid and in many places I have never seen before. I was very fortunate and had a great time with them. It has opened the game up in a way I never really imagined. While I had been in many raids and had some fun I had not yet been in a serious raiding guild where people really get together for that sole purpose.
I ended up becoming bored with WoW once my druid hit level 60 and I was not thrilled with the PvP type of gaming they were pushing. To this end, my WoW account is now closed and I am having a very good time in EQ. It is a bit of a switch because a few months ago I felt the opposite way. I was tired of losing roll after roll on runes for my spells and I had actually cancelled my EQ account. I think as the final day drew near I went ahead and kept the account active and even took advantage of the $99 special so I am hooked for the whole next year.
My biggest regret from these past few months is that I was very slow to pick up DoN and as I am continually finding out DoN is a heck of an expansion. Weather it is a Emoush raid or that Circle of Drakes encounter we played with last night there is a good amount of flat out fun content. I always did enjoy the social aspects of EQ and no other game I have tried has been able to step up to this. I am thinking I will be one of those who picks up the next expansion fairly quickly. I dont want to lose a month of experience while lurking here to see how you all are taking it in.
I look forward to seeing what Loral has to say about the new expansion but this time I will be seeing it from the angle of a co owner.
Horzek
Comment Posted by: Loral on August 30, 2005 11:32 AM
Thanks for the note Horzek (the real one).
I'm slacking on an article this week, I was out of town last week and news has been moderately slow.
Here's an interesting developer chat from Stratics:
http://eqforums.station.sony.com/eq/board/message?board.id=Crier&message.id=180
Here's a bunch of short fan fiction stories getting voted upon:
http://eqforums.station.sony.com/eq/board/message?board.id=Fun&message.id=3526
More later.
Comment Posted by: Sunshadow on August 31, 2005 06:12 PM
A question popped into my head last night as I was doing a LDON. I assume in shrouded mode I will be able to LDON's with my lower level friends. However what will happen if after receiving the mission you remove the shroud and return to your old level? Will you be blocked from the mission or will you still be able to enter the mission and slaughter everything for an easy win?
Comment Posted by: Loral on September 1, 2005 08:42 AM
You can only switch to and from a shroud in Plane of Knowledge. It isn't like an illusion that you can click off.
I do not know what happens if you get an adventure and then have someone switch out of a shroud. If it were DON it would dump the mission after so much time. I wonder if that code ever made it to LDON.
Comment Posted by: Ogulbuk on September 3, 2005 10:14 AM
Loral, the interview you linked says they are adding NPCs that allow you to change forms all over the world INCLUDING the plane of knoledge.
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