The Reign of Zorillius
by Loral on April 18, 2005
Things haven't slowed down in recent days. This year alone we've seen the War of Dreadlands, the release of Dragons of Norrath, the sixth year anniversary events, and the first class re-envisioning. It doesn't appear things will slow for some time. Today we will take a look at a few pieces of news, a few articles, and speak a little about "fun".
It appears our friend Robert Pfister has moved off to new horizons and Craig Knapp, also known as Zorillius, has become the Producer of Everquest. Craig's first Producer's Letter has a lot of interesting pieces of information.
SOE plans to instance the Plane of Time. We spoke about this at the first EQ Summit nearly a year ago and it was on their larger to-do list.
Time is popular because it drops a large amount of powerful gear in a single raid. It is a bottleneck not only for raiders but for just about everyone above level 65. There is no other way to acquire gear of that power in that short amount of time. Many argue that the work to reach Time is the cost of that reward but with the 85/15 rule in place, anyone can get into Time without any previous effort as long as they know the right people.
There is a lot of content tuned around Time level gear, not just raid content but single-group content. Once you hit a certain stage in the game, Time becomes the only viable place to upgrade your equipment to the point that you can hunt in places like Riftseekers, the Muramite Proving Ground Trials, or the Nest.
Offering equivalent gear elsewhere is a better alternative to instancing Time. I would rather see another revamp, perhaps a revamp of an instanced zone, that offers equivalent gear for a similar effort. I would also like to see Time-level gear become available to single-group hunters at the same rate it is received by Time raiders. We will discuss this more when we speak of Gemdiver's State of the Game article.
Based on long-standing raid rotations, the server merges have changed. Karana will now merge with The Rathe and Bertox will merge with Tholuxe Paells.
Due to popular demand, the names of merging servers will come from a vote rather than simply based on population. Depending on how they handle the vote, I would expect the results to be the same. If the original choice of the server title was based on active population, say the number of unique players who logged in within a week, and now they replace that with a vote over a week period for all unique players, one would expect the results to be the same. Anything can happen, however, and depending on what period of time the vote occurs, it could change the results.
Craig's letter also mentions plans to revamp the newbie experience and upgrade the look of some of the original EQ zones. This is something I think is critical to bring in new players and keep Everquest competitive with newer massive online games.
The key to this success comes from proper marketing. I outlined a few ideas in my "Five Steps to One Million Subscribers" article including offering the game on a free CD or DVD like AOL, and improving the initial user interface. Proper marketing of Everquest and selling it alongside Everquest 2 and Worlds of Warcraft could help fill in a lot of empty seats since last November.
I am happy to see new content for new players. The quest and mission system of Dragons of Norrath holds a lot of potential for all players of Everquest, not just the 50 to 70 crowd it currently targets.
SOE announced new Veteran Rewards last week. These seven features, one for each year a subscriber has remained active, include some shockingly good abilities. It appears that every player who has either played for a year or who will subscribe for a year to come will receive a 30 minute a day double experience bonus. This is a direct benefit to just about all players who play regularly, though it really helps players who only play for short bits of time every day.
Other abilities include a 100% res and corpse summon; a full mana and hitpoint refresh; two crazy buffing pets; short duration resist, statistic, and run speed increases; and a boost to heals and blasts. We will spend more time discussing each of the abilities once they go live in May.
My friend and debating partner (one might call him a master-debater *snicker*), Gemdiver, wrote an excellent article called the "State of the Game, Part 2". Gemdiver outlines two specific problems with the existing game: the focus on clerics and the equipment gap between raiders and non-raiders.
I agree with his detailed assessments on these two topics but I don't necessarily agree with the scope. I don't think the average active Everquest player, who I believe to be below level 60 has a continual requirement for clerics or sees the problem with high-end gear progression. I don't think fixing these problems will make or break Everquest for most players. I do, however, agree that both of these problems are large enough to warrant addressing. I think both of these problems far outweigh the problem of instancing Plane of Time.
At levels above 65, I think there is a large focus on groups requiring clerics. Places like Riftseekers, most of the Dragon missions, The Nest, MPG, and the MPG trials require a cleric in order to survive. In most places below these high-end zones, however, groups can probably get away with a druid or a shaman. We don't know exactly how the healing improvements to druids and shaman will play out but hopefully it will allow for a wider variety of successful groups.
Gear progression between raiders and single-group hunters has been a hot topic for me for nearly two years now. I have a few philosophies on this matter:
No single-group content should require raiding to access. This includes flagging but more recently includes equipment gaps. Riftseekers, the MPG Trials, and The Accursed Nest are single-group zones that require raid-equipped players.
All players should be able to improve their equipment through single-groups. This includes raiders. If raiders find the gear on the DON vendors to be underpowered, SOE should offer higher-end rewards that get all players excited about these missions. Likewise, single-group hunters should always have further avenues for equipment progression. There should always be higher-power gear for them to receive through single-group methods.
This topic could easily fill up an entire article so I won't dig into the problem here, but expect an article soon called "The Bloodwar" about the continuing war between raiders and non-raiders.
One last point, however. When guys like Gemdiver agree with guys like me on a topic like this, its probably time SOE began to listen. Something needs to be done to close the vast gaping chasm between single-group equipped players and raiders.
The gap must close.
When my mind begins to turn around this giant wheel of a topic, however, I always return to one thing: how does this relate to fun?
A recent post over on the EQ Live boards entitled "Thoughts of a... resting... EQ player" got me thinking about the larger scope of this topic: What is fun and what is not?
Believe it or not, I recently picked up and began playing World of Warcraft. I've barely scratched the surface of the game and I have no idea how it ends up in later levels, but it does give me another view of what makes MMOGs fun. While I won't get into specifics about "fun" now, I will ask that we, as players of Everquest, should continually focus on what we enjoy instead of worrying about statistics or re-envisioning or gear or class balance.
What matters is that we enjoy our time. What can we do to enjoy it more? What do we like? What do we not like? These are the questions that matter and it is this feedback that will really improve Everquest. Adding another 20 hitpoints onto an item won't make the game more fun.
Loral Ciriclight
18 April 2005
loral@loralciriclight.com
Comment Posted by: Tuppet on April 19, 2005 01:09 AM
Fun? I want to play the latest expansion - explore new lands, quests, items, new features (i.e. guild hall, tribute). I came in after LDON but before GoD. I liked LDoN but I felt ripped off by buying GoD because... except for 3 zones and tribute - I haven't used it. This is because I didn't have the gear necessary to survive GoD zones. Wish I would've known that before I bought it!
OK. How do I get the gear to play in GoD? Through Time? ugh - that's a lot of 'successful' raids (flags). I was unable to even come close to getting the flags necessary to get time (before 85/15).
Omens was a little better - as I was able to survive in the early zones. but again, I don't have the gear necessary for these zones. So you bet that I'm not going into a zone where it takes 5 seconds to get killed!
I busted my butt getting my toons levelled and geared. however, I can only go so far and the raid/non-raid gap seems huge to me by now. +300/300 vs my +80/80
How am I supposed to compete with the new content when I can't even reach Time gear, which was 5(?) expansions ago?! That's a lot to ask a player to go through before being able to play the latest expansion - which come out every 6 months...
New expansion zones are where most(taking a guess) players go when it's released. as a player, I feel kinda 'left out' since the expansions weren't 'meant for me' and that is not fun.
Comment Posted by: Armarant on April 19, 2005 04:39 AM
Tuppet Wrote: How am I supposed to compete with the new content when I can't even reach Time gear, which was 5(?) expansions ago?!
...
There are ways you can still upgrade your armor, Lost dungeons of Norrath groups, Dragons of Norrath Single Group missions both offer upgrades for people with +80/+80 Mana/HP gear..
and with Dragons of norrath crystals being tradeable it makes getting better gear even easier for non raiders.. the key to getting to that 300/300 gear is continual upgradeing.. you dont go from +50HP/Mana gear to +300HP/Mana gear overnight.
as you upgrade peices you can take on tougher mobs.. and those tougher mobs drop better stuff.. and the process continues.. you just need to find the right path..
Hopefully sony can provide more paths for progression thru the difficult parts.. such as those who find themselves at level 70 and are still in +80HP/Mana or worst gear.
Comment Posted by: mac173 on April 19, 2005 09:15 AM
The change to the 85/15 rule was a good one, but it still does not address the casual player. I am level 61, and in need of better equipment to continue in the game. I typically group with a 62 cleric and a 62 Pally, and we have trouble taking on Dark Blue mobs consistantly. The problem is equipment.
Being able to access the Time level gear would solve our problems, but getting a Guild to let us piggyback is not easy, and then we all have one problem in common. Time. Not the zone, the real life element of time. I do not have 5 to 8 hours to play the game, on any day of the week. I usually play between 1 and 3 hours a day, maybe 4 hours on the weekends. The raids for Time access, and the ones to get the gear, take more time than that. LDoN missions could upgrade me a bit, but not much, and the time:reward ratio is not good.
I agree that the gap is a more critical issue than Sony seems to think it is, and it really needs to be addressed.
Comment Posted by: Teremar on April 19, 2005 09:35 AM
I think Time should have been instanced a long time ago, but then I've never understood having a PvP component (racing for content) in a PvE game. Will this fix all of EQ's problems? Hardly. But SOE has lots of experience with instancing now, so this should not be a difficult task. And I presume it will be purely a programming task, not needing any designer or artist time. So unless the designers have lots of new systems worked out and the bottleneck is getting them implemented in code, instancing Time will have very little effect on the broader issues like class re-envisioning.
One of which is cleric dependance. Looking for a group is not fun. And if the major reason groups don't form is because they can't find the cleric they need, then fixing cleric dependance will make the game more fun. Except perhaps for the clerics, who do not have such troubles getting groups. SOE had better tread carefully here, but there have been some great ideas on the cleric boards for making clerics less one-dimensional. SOE should do that.
Sadly this is one area where WoW learned nothing from EQ. Groups are constantly stymied for lack of a healer. Here's hoping SOE can come up with something good so Blizzard can copy it.
And since you're trying WoW, Loral, let me give you my "Beginning WoW for EQ players" lecture.
1) You can solo, but you'll have more fun if you don't. Go out of your way to find groups and make friends.
2) The first 15 levels or so are more of a newbie tutorial. It gets harder. Don't judge until you've done your first instanced dungeon.
3) In instances, fighting multiple mobs is the norm and there's no CC class. You can't just assist--do your part to keep the mobs off the healer. Everyone is CC.
And if you want to try a Role-Playing server, Silver Hand is nice and stable now. I'm guessing you wouldn't want any twink gear (not that twinking is all that effective in WoW anyway) but I'd be happy to send you some nice big bags. I hate the thought of anyone trying to get along with those awful six-slot bags you get in the newbie zones!
Comment Posted by: Tuppet on April 19, 2005 10:07 AM
"There are ways you can still upgrade your armor, Lost dungeons of Norrath groups, Dragons of Norrath Single Group missions both offer upgrades for people with +80/+80 Mana/HP gear.."
Agree that LDoN is a good place to get upgrades. but LDoN addies aren't being used as much as they once were. There is a percentage of people that already got their points and upgraded their adv stone and moved on, let's say to DoN. I think this is the biggest flaw with the LDoN route - lack of participants make this route less practical.
I liked LDoN but I think the number of points you get at lower levels is too restricted. as stated by mac173 "reward ratio is not good." trying to get 1492 points for multiple slots will still take a long time - since you can't just crank out the points yourself - u need a group...
(maybe make ldon points into a currency like DoN crystals? just a crazy idea but thought I'd throw it out there.)
"you dont go from +50HP/Mana gear to +300HP/Mana gear overnight." -Armarant
I'm not looking for instant gratification on gear. One, I was pointing out that the newer content is beyond what I'm capable of. Two, I'm having a hard time trying to bridge the cap so I can leap-frog into newer zones/content.
This gap started around level 65. I think I "over-levelled" my toon to where my level is not reflective of my power - because of gear/aa deficiencies. I found myself struggling in newer content like GoD/Omens - constantly OoM.
Comment Posted by: Redcloud on April 19, 2005 10:11 AM
That's a lot of talk about gear when the topic should be fun don't you think?
Stating that MPG, RS are ONLY doable with Time gear is a fallacy. Augmented DoN gear, one groupable Omens/DoN gear go a long way into allowing non raiders to gear up. MPG single group trials group is close to top end Time gear. Everything BUT Quarm gear has lesser stats that MPG single group drops (or close).
The gap is wide not because people can't get gear elsewhere but because there's a HUGE gap in time commitment between casuals and hard core raids. Casual raiders won't equip any faster than a solid group of non-raiders going through Omens and DoN.
Gear accretion works in favor of long standing players and no matter what is done for casual gamers unless you spoonfeed them with items, they just won't play enough to keep up.
The game should be fun regardless. Not by bending the game backwards to fit a 5 h/week player into a 20 h/week player shoe or vice versa (both will be unhappy).
Comment Posted by: Tuppet on April 19, 2005 11:12 AM
ok more fun:
1. easier way to locate and keep track of quests?
2. quest rewards are questionable, i.e. experience and loot. is there a way to increase exp reward without creating a way to abuse the quest?
3. revamps - lavastorm upgrade was nice. and OMG FV got taken over?! what to do... (dynamic environment)
4. GM Events/major quests, like those 1-month quests - The Kidnapping of Firiona Vie.
5. What about a dynamic environment/zone?
DoN has Ebon/Radiant crystals. Would it be possible to set up events dependent on the turn-in of these crystals? like if Evil faction was getting more crystals, they would start to take over a larger part of a zone(s). perhaps to simulate a larger force - spawn major baddies, like dragons. or even provide vendor discounts to those with greater faction.
rewards/missions/events are just examples. but it would be cool if the world somehow changed based on LDoN/DoN type missions. "I" helped accomplished "something" instead of I killed Quarm and all I got was this lousy bp.
Comment Posted by: Teremar on April 19, 2005 12:29 PM
The trick is, how do you make a game both 5 hour/week people and 20 hour/week people can play? Especially in the long run--after three years that's about 750 total hours played vs. 3000. Or to put it in practical terms, how do you create an expansion both groups will buy? For a while there were essentially two separate games, but that just doesn't work.
I think the solution has to be making player power not be a linear function of time played. For example, expansion #9 can have a way for people to get the same kind of gear people got in expansion #4, but in 1/4 the time. That way the gap in power doesn't continue to grow, making it impossible to design content for both groups. There's still a gap, but it is fixed in size.
Of course historically the problem has been that EQ's progression was non-linear, but in the wrong direction. Playing more allowed you to raid, which allowed much better progression than non-raiding even per hour spent. It seems like SOE has been working to fix that, and that's good.
Comment Posted by: Loral on April 19, 2005 01:17 PM
The new quest system they've added in Dragons is very nice. Its a mix of the task system and the mission system but with basically the same features of other quest systems in EQ2 and WoW. It tells you where to go, who to talk to, and what is left to accomplish it. The quest rewards in Dragons of Norrath was usually on the order of an AA's worth of experience at level 70.
SOE plans to use this further as they improve systems like this. I'd like to see progressive quest tracking (several quests that work together towards an end-goal) and equipment rewards.
Revamps are also a good idea but one has to consider the cost to totally rebuild a zone compared to its use. One problem right now is that zones below a certain level never see near the use they do at level 65 to 70 just based on the age of the game. I think making zones useful to all players of all levels though LDON-like scaling is one way but there's no real good solution. Right now, hotzones are the best way.
However, it is clear from Craig's note that SOE is looking at revamping old world zones and revitalizing the newbie game. Thats a good thing.
As far as the 5 / 20 hour thing, I think one key is diminishing returns. All players should make the most progress within their first five hour a week play session. Each hour after doesn't offer rewards quite as good. This doesn't punish those who play a long time, it just slows down the extreme jumps that we often see.
In order to compete with WoW and EQ2, however, EQ1 needs to ensure that those total 20 hours are more fun than the first hour of WoW or EQ2. I'm enjoying the WoW newbie game so far and its already cut a tad-bit into my EQ time simply because I like the look of the game and I'm enjoying the quests. Last night, however, my guild told me I was going to have to wait 45 minutes for a mob to spawn and I quit. I camped Ragefire for five days straight once, but I'll never do anything like that again.
It's a real difficult balance these days and I don't think there is any one clear answer.
Comment Posted by: Stylx on April 19, 2005 02:04 PM
yes... thats it Loral.. come over to the dark side!
(The quests get better, and often times more fun as you continue to advance. There are a few areas of "Not quite so fun collection quests", but for the most part, at any level you can do some pretty unique quests.)
I've only played Horde, but i'm on my second char to 60. Second time around was twice as fun as the first time!
Comment Posted by: Kubb on April 19, 2005 02:42 PM
The way WoW appears to handle the casual/hardcore disparity is by making the equipment from raids only slightly better than what casuals can get as opposed to 400% better as is the case in EQ. This allows raiders to get better equipment but not to the point that content becomes trivial to them but overly difficult for casual players.
On the other hand, EverQuest started out this way too and it wasn't really until Luclin/PoP that things spiralled out of control.
Comment Posted by: mac173 on April 19, 2005 02:43 PM
"As far as the 5 / 20 hour thing, I think one key is diminishing returns. All players should make the most progress within their first five hour a week play session. Each hour after doesn't offer rewards quite as good. This doesn't punish those who play a long time, it just slows down the extreme jumps that we often see."
I think that will work as one element of a solution, but there needs to be a multifaceted approach to the problem.
The Plane of Time was a very difficult and arduous task for many players in EQ. Guilds have spent a ton of time getting people flagged, and then the major raids themselves. For their effort, they were rewarded with the best gear in the game. However, it is no longer the best gear, and those uber Guilds and people have moved on to more advanced content. Its time to unlock Time. Keeping any nonraiding players out of the content that is several expansions back AND impeding their progress to that new content is counterproductive. This is keeping many players from enjoying the available content in the new expansions, and is also limiting the players available to group with in those zones. I know that a lot of the veterans of the original PoP progression will not like it, and will be very vocal about it, but they represent the minority of players. The majority of players want a chance to progress as well. Not as fast, not as well, but advance. I have been playing casualy for over 4 years, and my main is level 61. My biggest problem now is, I cannot get better gear unless I move onto the new zones, but I cannot move to those zones until I get better gear. I need Time gear to move forward. I am not alone. Lets move the game forward, instead of holding it back.
Comment Posted by: on April 19, 2005 04:17 PM
Even if you made time an open, unlocked zone, you would not even be able to get passed phase 1 without (at least) 30ish to 40ish (probly more until everyone is familiar with it).
Yea, I guess you could farm phase 1 with one group (more likely still need at least 2 groups and probly 3 per portal), but heck same or better loot drops in mpg/rs.
So, while 'open raiding' would be an option for an 'unlocked time', your still having to commit the time required to successfully progress thru time, and you can't really do that very effectively playing 1-2 hours a night, nor for single or even double group hunters.
Comment Posted by: Teremar on April 19, 2005 04:51 PM
Two notes on the psychology of solutions proposed:
1) Reducing the xp you get after you've been online for a while will have players up in arms. Giving you a bonus for the first few hours of play will not, even though the end result is the same. Blizzard learned this when they proposed the first in beta and then "caved" and implemented the second. No need for SOE to repeat that mistake.
Note however, that a level cap and the fact that the AA's you haven't bought yet become steadily less useful as you buy the best ones available means EQ essentially has diminishing returns on xp. The problem is gear progression, not xp.
2) Those who conquered the Plane of Time are FIERCELY proud of their achievement. Even the proposal to open it will have them up in arms. Far better to create new zones with gear comparable to Time but no similar time sinks. This smooths out gear progression without devaluing their accomplishment.
On the other hand I've heard more than one Time raider say they'd never do it again--much like Loral and Ragefire. I've heard this even more from EQ vets now playing WoW: I think changing games even once makes you really think about the value of in-game accomplishments and what you really want out of a game. I find I'm much more willing to say "This isn't fun, so I'm just not going to do it" than I ever was in EQ.
I think there's a niche for games that are based on accomplishment more than making every moment "fun." But I suspect it's going to be a much smaller audience than most companies will want. I'm not part of that audience, but I do hope Sigil can stay true to their "Vision" even when Microsoft figures out Vanguard is never going to be the next WoW. Clearly SOE does not intend for EQ to only appeal to that audience, and that will continue to frustrate some people (Hi Redcloud!).
Comment Posted by: Redcloud on April 19, 2005 05:27 PM
Time is 30 months old. If people wanted to make pick up raids for time, more power to them. Yet Quarm and time in general has some hard to replace drops that sadly god/omens/don hardly provided.
If time gets fully instanced, I wouldn't be shocked if it were opened.
Comment Posted by: TraxxusFV on April 19, 2005 06:18 PM
What's fun about EQ? It's actually a very interesting question when you really consider it. When you look at the day to day mundane activities you may be involved in, each on their own really can't be described as fun.
Tradskilling: Spending hours and hours farming and gathering supplies, then sitting by yourself and click, click, click, until you see those magic words "you have gotten better at x (300)". It's certainly an accomplishment, but fun?
Exp grinding: Trying to squeeze the maximum number of kills into the amount of time you have to hunt. No time for chit-chat, just pull...kill, pull...kill. In itself grinding sucks, but the people you're with can provide some real entertainment.
Dungeon Crawling: Okay, dungeon crawling with a good group is fun.
Raiding: depending on your class, and the target, raiding involves a greatly varying degree of activity. IMO raids are hours of boredom punctuated by moments of sheer terror. But is it fun? Again, as with grinding, the amount of fun you have really depends on the people you're with.
Quests: Completing a quest is satisfying, but I've yet to find one that's actually fun.
Gear: Getting upgrades gives a definite warm fuzzy feeling, but the next day, it's back to the grind to find your next piece.
What I really enjoy about EQ is that it provids a totally foreign environment in which to interect with other people.
An easier question to answer about EQ, is what's not fun.
1- Being passed over for a group isn't fun
2- Getting a great ability, then having it nerfed into a pg.50 bookmark isn't fun
2a- Finding out a nerfed ability is going to be nerfed again isn't fun.
3- Having the Devs ignore well thought out feedback isn't fun.
3a- Watching respected members of your class communtiy turn on each other because the devs are ignoring well thought out feedback isn't fun.
4- Getting a raid mob to 40% only to have the zone crash isn't fun.
5- Having a mob that's six levels below you resist root 6 times in a row when you're on crowd control...definitely not fun.
6- Camping a spawn point for hours, and hours, and hours for a piece of equipment isn't fun.
7- Having some l33t haxor gank your spawn by using showEQ and macroquest isn't fun.
8- Trying to acquire rare spells with marginal effects...not fun
9- Being below level 60 and buying a new expansion with advertised content for 36-70, then discovering there's only content for 60-70 isn't fun.
10- Did I say being ignored by the devs isn't fun? I figure I should say it twice.
Comment Posted by: Solistic on April 19, 2005 06:41 PM
Ok so they make Time instant. So what, I still will not be able to go there or actually want to, or by the time I get to Time I will be more interested in better more fun stuff.
I never have figured PoP, or justified the psychology of it. Why do I want to go and kill the person I worship. Hmm Sounds like one of those crime shows with the psychopath on a killing spree.
No I want adventures and fun that are riskie, that I can tell stories about. I want content that makes me desire to go on and on to find out how I rescued, or became the hero, or survived unsurmountable odds to come out on top.
I do not want to be one of the sheep in a "zerg" raid on a mob that I really know nothing about other than it is a stepping stone to another object.
Comment Posted by: Aquendar on April 19, 2005 07:15 PM
What makes EQ fun? Almost anything you can DO! However, what those of us (I'm a non-raider) with a mix of Ornate, OoW and prior bazaar loot can do is limited. What's not fun is putting together a group that could handle an average 63 LDoN of two Necros, an enchanter, a mage, a cleric and me (63 Ranger) and discovering that there's no way on Norrath's green earth that you can do a DoN mission. No plate tank, rez city. So we all got individual Stillmoon tasks and went there. Another nightmare, as the mobs heal, gate, etc. and you're constantly dealing with 3 mobs in camp with the stupid high resists of mobs a dozen levels higher than them. In the end my 5 hours of play time had about 90 minutes of what I'd call fun and 3.5 hours of waiting for rezzes, waiting for other members to get/recover from rezzes.
So, how can I improve my gear so that I can tank in DoN? 120K per Bazu Flame armor piece in the bazaar, 15 LDoNs per 1492 piece (which nobody does any more), or OoW armor from zones I'm not high enough level to get invites too yet. It's started getting better on the OoW zones, as I've hit 65AAs and as long as I'm not the puller I can stay alive long enough to get experience.
Unless I go solo in PoP tier 1, Luclin, or earlier, I'm dependent on having a plate tank and a healer to access content that I pay for and I need to be able to survive in other content that I pay for.
While DoN on the face of it looks like a great idea, SoE made the social agro ranges, even between different 'species' of mobs so huge it's sick. If you're not invis going to an instance, expect to be swarmed by 3 mobs that agro 6 or more other mobs from outside your clip plane.
The only reason EQ is still fun for me and lures me back to it far too often is that I've come to accept it will take a long time to access new content or great groups or the kindness of strangers that need Ranger DPS. My guild is great and we have fun crawling Howling Stones, most of us have master keys, or making a run through Droga. Eventually we'll do enough LDoN's, which we still do because it's one of the few places we can get good experience with our gear and something more, that I'll get my LDoN 1492 chest piece. I just do these things and enjoy them and wait for Bazu Flame armor to become common enough to afford it. Eventually I'll get lucky enough to be asked to a group that kills a WoS named that drops my Tier 1 no drop piece for OoW armor. Eventually all of that happens, and as long as I don't let it get me down that it will be at least a year before I see Time, much less Qvic or MPG, and remember there are 100s of other zones to do stuff in, I'm OK.
Could SoE improve on this? Absolutely. They could put a task in the game that has 120 steps that can be accomplished by any solo/3 or 4 friends player in 1-4 hours per step (depending on how much help) with a 150HP piece of armor at the end, or, even better a 75HP or 35 resist augment that can stay with you a while. Heck, send me to every zone in the game if you have to!
GoD and PoP it was flags that kept people out of zones, now it's equipment. So, I can go buy plat (which I would NEVER do, and neither should anybody else) or I can just enjoy what I can do and realize that eventually I'll have 200AAs, level 70, better gear and trouble finding a group outside of guild as everybody has moved on to the next 3 expansions :).
So, having fun in EQ is about attitude, and having the attitude that hanging with friends killing stuff is fun, will keep you from being frustrated that you don't have the latest and greatest gear. This game has content for all levels and eventually all content will be trivialized. My guild took down Trakanon with 11 people. Yeah, we had an uber Berzerker to tank, but that just emphasizes how eventually, everything becomes doable. Just enjoy what you can do, save your plat, be willing to try new things, and the game will come to you!
Comment Posted by: Nahhtee on April 19, 2005 10:47 PM
I'm still having fun in EQ, but I can see the end of my time playing the game.
Once I get my characters up to the point where I have to dedicate large blocks of free time to raiding or LDoN missions to get the gear to stay alive in the zones of the new expansions, I'll find something else to do with my time and money.
While groups are fun, most pickup groups I've been in lately have been exercises in finding the zoneline....or a rez. Seems that most of the people who know how to play have moved on to the high-payoff zones. So I spend a lot of time soloing or hunting with a partner.
EQ isn't very friendly to soloists, and if one of the partners isn't a good healer, it chews up duos pretty fast as well.
Tradeskills are diverting, but not when they get broken with the new updates. Being social with friends is enjoyable, until they get a group above your level and have to drop the chatter.
Sure, I could plug myself in and grind like a demented monkey to gain the levels / AAs / gear that would let me keep playing, but I have this thing I call a life, so I'm not going to do that.
When I leave a game that I no longer enjoy, that's one more account down on the way to the next server merger. Sony needs to give me something I can enjoy, without selling my soul to raid the Planes.
Comment Posted by: Redcloud on April 20, 2005 05:28 AM
The dependance over a warrior can be a problem.
The interdependency is not. It's a strength of EQ.
300HP drops don't fall in ANYONE lap like that. The time and effort involved by FIFTY people to get ONE drop far exceeds what a single group is willing to put up with. Again people indulge in self-pity and berate what they don't like, can't do, don't know, aren't up to.
Not all single groupers are self-serving, ignorant and unskilled but it would reflect the bias and berating of raiding in their mouth.
Comment Posted by: Redcloud on April 20, 2005 05:55 AM
DoN is a grouper expansion.
Fully augmented DoN gear is equivalent to raid gear.
Augmented DoN gear gives access to all groupable content...
Comment Posted by: Aazzn on April 20, 2005 08:20 AM
I think people need to re-examine a few things. Number one, whats the point of having raid content in general if people that dont' raid can go and do everything you can do. Also the whole complaint about GoD being closed off to everyone except for 3 zones really is rather amusing. In a smattering of planes of power ornate and finer ldon armor ( especially with some augs), a balanced group of lvl 65 80+ well spent aa adventurers can go to the vast majority of the single group zones of GoD. Qinimi, riwwi, Barindu, some of ferubi, and the sewer trials. After spending some time there they would be ready for vxed certainly. The first half or so of tipt wouldn't be incredibly difficult. So much of what I read from people is that they die when they go there.
And to the people who say DoN is too hard because mobs heal, gate, and have alot of casters. Well thats really not something new. Go to sebilis with a group of level 50's in gear that you only farmed from sol b and lower guk. People that are used to the lazy mindless grinds of easy single pulls in wide open outdoor zones will have trouble with DoN missions at first. But dying a few times and learning from those deaths helps alot.
Also to the people that say people who don't raid dont' have access to nice gear should try out some tradeskills, or find their class forums and ask questions of people there for tips on single groupable gear for people of their level. There are lots of wisened old guys waiting for a chance to share their wisdom there. You might have to put up with some smart alec remarks and such, but if you yourself are respectful and polite most times they will be too.
Also the upcoming server merges should increase the pool of folks doing pick up groups so it will be easier to find cheaper gear in the bazaar, more folks to group with etc.
One thing i think that would help casual folks alot more is to increase the tribute given for many items. Tribute is a great way for folks to get some increases to their stats, especially for haste, flowing thought, ac, and attack.
Comment Posted by: Redcloud on April 20, 2005 12:18 PM
Most of the needed focii are all on DoN vendor for a minimal fraction of the effort once needed to get those in raid, then on ornate (cost/timewise).
Focii, anger, stuns, gear, weapons are all available on DoN merchants and it's NOT that hard to succeed in DoN content. Mobs don't hit that hard at all, nothing close to GoD or upper Omens.
And you can easily complete them with tribute as mentionned above.
Comment Posted by: Loral on April 24, 2005 08:37 AM
Here's an excellent email I received a couple of days ago:
Hey Loral,
I was reading your previous column about playing WoW and games looking for what is "Fun." Well I have played these games that are supposedly more "fun" like EQ2, WoW, City of Heroes etc. and after playing them for awhile something seemed amiss. The games seem fun to play, combat is much more interesting, much less downtime, you can solo easier, and most have some kind of instances, but after playing the games for awhile I have noticed a significant problem. The problem is that all these things they put in to make the game more fun have come at the cost of interaction with other players. With combat now requiring you to continually use skills and almost no down time in these games, there is no time to actually talk to people. You basically have one person lead and just attack mob after mob until you have to log off. I remember grouping in CoH and there would never be any kind of chat that wasn't related to combat. After joining a group the only chat text you would see would be people saying "hi" and then when they said "I have to go." I remember in EQ you would actually have fairly extensive conversations, even in pick up groups. Talking was so much the norm that if you joined a group that didn't say much there would always be someone that would remark "Man this sure is a quite group."
Another factor in this is the increasing desire to make soloing easier. Sure no one wants to be forced to get a group to do anything, especially if groups require certain classes to do well. But the downside to this is that these games have basically turned into One Player online games. Take WoW forexample, the vast majority of the players are solo, who only seem to group to accomplish a specific quest or instanced dungeon. If you just run around the various zones you see far more solo players than you do see people in groups. I have a level 60 hunter in WoW and honestly I have soloed 99% of the time to get there. The only times I have grouped are to finish up a specific quest or to help some of my lower level guild members complete an instanced dungeon. If you can solo and get experience almost as fast as you can with a group, people will opt for soloing almost every time since they don't have to worry about the hassels of getting a group, they can take a break when ever they want, etc.
WoW does some good things, but I think some of these good things will also shorten how long people actually play the game. Since WoW makes it easy to solo and it doesn't take that long to level, it is pretty easy for a commited player to get to 60, it only took me 3 months to get to 60 and that was only playing part time. Now that I am level 60 I have nothing to do. Sure I could go on raids to get better equipment, but from what I have seen the equipment isn't that much better than what I have now or that I can buy from the Auction House. I am not overly interested in PVP and I have no idea when they are going to come out with an expansion that raises the level cap so I may very well cancel my account soon. I have tried playing some other classes, but after awhile it gets tiring doing the same quests over again that you did with your original character. I doubt that I am the only one that feels this way either. The closest example I can think of goes back to the single player games, I have beaten the game so I guess I move on to something else.
In all these next generation MMORPG's I have tried I can honestly say I don't remember anyone that I ran into during the game that I didn't already know going into it. In original EQ I still remember players that I grouped with back when I was level 10, even though that was over 5 years ago, and i have never seen them again. With the way these new games are designed around more action oriented combat and less downtime, I doubt I will ever see that happen again. The loss of that community will mostly likely shorten the longevity of these new games. I honestly doubt you will ever see gatherings of WoW players like you see at the EQ fan fairs. So even with all the improvements of these new games, there has been something crucial that has been lost. I doubt you will ever see the kind of community the original EQ created ever again.
Comment Posted by: Horzek on April 25, 2005 03:22 PM
Hey Loral,
The previous post is excellent. Other than me playing a druid to level 57 I find the exact things to be so noticable. I have often commented that I missed the social aspects of EQ that I could not find in City of Heroes or WoW. I do remember a bit of social in SWG but I gave that up over a year ago for other reasons involving game play and design.
I too remember people I met 6 years ago and many of them have become friends I still look to play with when ever I can. Some of our exploits way back then are still the subject of legend between us.
It is largely for this reason that I find myself playing EQ more and more often and not playing WoW so much. I enjoy the social part of the game far more than constant mind numbing action with no break till I pass out.
There are still some game issues in EQ that I dont care for and I guess there always will be. The world is vast though and as long as I can find a group I can find something to do. If I cant find a group I can at least enjoy the guild banter.
Comment Posted by: Pomaikai Po'okela on April 29, 2005 08:28 PM
The new DoN tradeskilled armor fully augmented is quite sufficient to allow most players to experience MPG and DoN quests. RS will be more dependent upon the amount of mana that your Cleric has, and if you have a backup healer in the group, as well as the HP's and aa's of your tank. After that it's just keep the mobs snared and pile on the DPS. If you have to, bring two groups and make a mini-raid at the statue. The augments and 69/70 spell runes will make it all worthwhile. Oh yes, you must keep the mobs snared at all times or you will wipe. It's that simple. MPG Trials require Time+ gear. I'm in an Elemental guild one kill away from time, (Sushi anyone?) and those MPG Trials are just out of our league. We will be revisiting them soon though...
Comment Posted by: Hluill on May 1, 2005 12:56 PM
Fun?
I have to constantly remind myself that this game is not about the numbers but the fun. Maybe some of the fun is based on the numbers, but the more I think about it: no, it isn't.
Fun: As a level-six rogue, grouping with 10th Shaman and a 12th SK to deliver the mail from Qeynos to Highkeep. Seeing new zones, avoiding badguys and learning that my ogre buddy was KoS to guards!
Fun: I got fell into the Lava in Solusek's Eye and accidently zoned into Nagafen's Where I was killed. My SK buddy was not high enough to venture into Nagafen's but he helped me locate and sneak out my corpse.
Fun: The pull gone bad. Mobs are everywhere. SK Buddy is swarmed and going down fast. Shaman buddy drew aggro with a heal and I am trying to pry them off of her with backstabs. Smoke clears. Mobs are dead and we're at less than 20% health each.
Fun: Chatting with my SK buddy while bandaging him.
Fun: Joking with the group about getting kicked by a snake or a dismembered hand. Trying to figure out how anything without a weapon can riposte or even parry, why legionares outrank centurions. Or just listening to to the merchant's greeting: 'Hello Hluill, you look like you could use a teddy bear.'
Not Fun: Not being able to group with buddies because of RL commitments/changes in scheduals.
Not Fun: Dying in a flash over some glitch.
Not Fun (for me at least, though many of my friends enjoy it): Raids, Grinds and Power-LDoNing.
Not Fun: Not being able to group with my newby, RL buddies that I am trying to get addicted to the game.
Wow, well, I wanted to add my two cents!
Thanks for the time.
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